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Developer
JRab
Posts: 2,462
Registered: ‎11-04-2010
My Device: Bold 9700

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

[ Edited ]

@John: sorry about the misunderstanding about your usage of "spot on" - i guess i as well took it to an extreme (irony). anyways i undoubtedly agree with your post. i was under the assumption u'd agreed that it was impossible. but based on the last post, id have to agree with most if not all of your points. the process can be made easier and RIM has taken a beating for their relations with 3rd party developers. But as Paulo has stated, its getting better and id have to agree with that claim. they've come a long way - a really long way.

 

i'll agree RIM isnt a new company but they their direction to be more geared towards consumers is certainly a new place for them. they were always enterprise only and only recently started being more "social" with consumers. so thats probably why im cutting them some slack.

 

Im super glad though that you decided to stick around. you were one of the first here and quite active and definitely helped push me along to where i am now. i dont know if that'd be the case had you abandoned the playbook.

 

i too hope RIM takes these forum suggestions and also the ones they receive by other means into consideration and realize the true value of 3rd party developers. i feel we are the middle man between consumers and the company and if they want more of us to be here supporting them, they have to show that they are aware of our thoughts and are conisdering them for the most part and not just leave it to us to assume they are.

 

and i also have to say after a day of it settling into my system, im gonna eat some of my words and say his blog entry maybe be as beneficial if more beneficial than harmful. you probably think im crazy right? my main gripe was the way he went about the whining. but as john stated he did have good some points and he did provoke RIM to respond accordingly not only reassuring him but also most of us here. so if you needed a silver lining (i sure did) there it is.

 

@bill: im a little ignorant to how the WebWorks SDK works. he was generalizing so i didnt take that too well. if it was specifically webworks, then id have to read more into it.

 

@davies: agreed and i like your sig :smileyhappy:

 

@smiley: i think that maybe a positive and a negative. RIM did respond because of the exposure the blogger was getting. which can be taken negatively as "do we really have to go that far to be responded to?" so hopefully we will be better heard from this point forward.

 

@ahaz: that reminds me of a test i took in high school. the directions on the test were "Do not take this test." you wouldnt believe how many people spent time and worked on the test only to fail haha.

 

at the end of it, i have mixed feelings about the whole incident. there is good and bad in both parties involved. but i can say that RIM took a good step and hopefully all the steps they take from this point forward fall in line with what they stated in their response.

J. Rab (Blog) (Twitter)
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Approved Apps: OnTrack | ssShots | Hangman
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Developer
jtegen
Posts: 6,541
Registered: ‎10-27-2010
My Device: HTC One, PlayBook, LE Z10, DE Q10
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

That's the problem with email/blogs/posts/etc.  You can never gauge the intent or feeling behind the words.

 

I do wish RIM would take a few us up on trying to help the process and the tools before it gets out to the general public (cheap labor).  It would save countless hours and money for everyone if they outreached to the developer community more.  Not willing to pay the $2K/year again (did a few years ago), but we're here to help not hurt.

 

Maybe a super secret society with secret handshakes and passwords (and those funny hats with tassels too).

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Developer
ahazdesigns
Posts: 152
Registered: ‎08-25-2010
My Device: 9530, 9550, 9630
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

@jrab i think all schools have that test because i definitely remember it in my 8th grade math class. It said read all questions before beginning this test

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Developer
JRab
Posts: 2,462
Registered: ‎11-04-2010
My Device: Bold 9700

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

haha i agree $2,000 a year is out of my budget. i too wish they'd bring some of us in but thats wishful thinking. id imagine they have tons of hoops for people who are in the loop to jump through. RIM is a company based on security so they are probably extra paranoid. but hopefully with their new trends in other departments, they become a little more willing to accept some outsiders. hopefully they can see the benefit in that.

 

p.s. i hope they include those robes with those tassles too!

J. Rab (Blog) (Twitter)
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Developer
RottenOgre
Posts: 274
Registered: ‎11-01-2010
My Device: PlayBook?
My Carrier: WiFi

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

I don't know, I don't remember the early stages being that difficult. Sure it wasn't a cakewalk but I never thought about quitting at any point. Maybe I'm just blocking it out.

 

The most annoying thing to me is the crippled simulators (especially how we lost sound again after having it in 0.9.2...).

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Developer
T55555
Posts: 117
Registered: ‎12-03-2010
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

[ Edited ]

 

Yes, life is not easy.

Not only here, in my pass experience, there are many times like following document / user-guide step by step but it just doesn't work....

 

My experience about developing application for PB is not smooth; without the help of community, I may never finish my applications.

 

Some examples:

(1) Need to synch time on Simulator to allow Flash IDE to debug.

(2) Not sure about you guy, but my application just crashed without any exception/error on Simulator 0.9.2

I even don't know how to ask help, because, there is no any error that I can find. ( and debugger just quiet )

After install Simulator 0.9.3, the same code works without any problem.

( Can you imagine how many headaches and hard times I had before 0.9.3 came out for this problem ? )

...

 

But again, someone did finish their application and submitted,

it proves that the process/tools, may be difficult and not perfect, but it is not impossible.

 

Criticize to improve the tool/process is ok;

but don't just complain other people and give up easily;

many newbie like me are able to finish, so do you!

 

 

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Playbook Applications: Chinese Calendar and Zodiac, Peg Solitaire!

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Developer
tags07
Posts: 386
Registered: ‎12-12-2010
My Device: BB Style
My Carrier: Sprint

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

Sure there were hiccups along the way..but nothing stopped me from publishing the apps. Perhaps the drive to own a free Playbook helped in ignoring the redundant steps.  Regarding having to fill same form before each SDK download, browser cookies helped to autofill them for me so it wasnt too difficult.

 

If you are a hardcore developer, you'd find ways around the roadblocks and move on.  Its part of the process to getting your development env setup. Its not like i have to rebuild cross-development tools from scratch. If you ever have tried to build  gcc or other GNU toolchains from scratch for ARM or other processors, you'd know what a pain it is to setup the development env. But it has been a breeze incomparison to that to get started on Playbook dev.

 

Every platform is different. Android's been the only platform to my knowledge thats been effortless from download to running a HellowWorld App on the simulator. I don't own a Mac so there ends my chances for knowing whats involved in iPhone development. I have no intentions of working on Windows developent. I downloaded WebOS recently and that doesnt look bad either. Symbian was really bad with poor documentation and no one stop shop to get started. Now compare that to Playbook development, the only issue i have/had was that i need to install FlashBurrito on a Windows machine and the fact that I cannot do all my development sticking with Linux. But beyond that it was very simple...esp. with a great support from this forum..something that I havn't seen in other platforms.. If anyone has been on this forum, they are sure to feel comfortable interacting with other folks... JRab, peter, jtegen and many other like minded folks do a great job in responding to fellow members giving it a real social feel. 

 

But if you are a brand new developer, I can understand the frustration going thru the initial process. Thankfully, they are all one time hasstles..Once you have passed those its a painless process to develop on the platform. I have tried Webworks, Flex Mobile app and Acrion script Mobile app and all these are very easy to develop and deploy.

 

Lastly, To me capability of the development platform and ability to transform my ideas from concept to a finished product matters most in deciding if I'd continue developing for a platform. I can say that between Flash, Webworks and Java baed development on Playbook...it has a very rich development platform for me to ignore and move away. The End. Clap!! Clap !! Clap!!! 

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Developer
gluth
Posts: 192
Registered: ‎09-23-2009
My Device: 9860/PlayBook/Dev Alpha
My Carrier: Plus GSM

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

I've read letter and response, and seen similar complains about installation, process and others many times in the forum. I've experienced simulator crashes, hickups and terrifying SDK bugs which were driving me crazy. I know that those tools are in beta, I know that this device is not yet on the market; and that's the point of this all. Without pain there would be no profit. If there would be single easy to download SDK  with simulator included (like it is for BB phones development), easy WYSWIG GUI editor with support for QNX classes there would be no reason to give devices to developers.

Timer is ticking and RIM is trying to catch up with competition, they've released partly finished tools and simulator, they've also made a prize which closed our eyes for bugs.

Beuty of coding show itself when you can solve puzzles and handle issues, this is my favorite part of this job. I'm not the guy who cries in public when he cannot build application just with drag and drop with bouncing and dancing interface. It is clear to me, that when you are a pioneer you have to sometimes grab a shovel and digg some hole (write a bunch of console scripts) - when you are in gold rush you can dig many, many holes.

 

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Developer
TheDarkIn1978
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎12-10-2010
My Device: PlayBook
My Carrier: N/A

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

Jamie Murai raised some valid points.  i particularly agree with how foolish it is to have to switch the simulator to developer mode and supply a password.  i assume this is how the device will operate and that the simulator image kept those options.  they should be removed from the simulator.

 

that being said, i'd like to know if he used the same iOS SDK and XCode developer tools as i did.  a "pleasure" to use?  wow.  the word "nightmare" is more accurate from my previous account.  if you guys think it's diffuclt to sign yoru .bar files now, just be thankful you never had to deal with provisioning iOS applications.  and, apple most certainly did require lots of information, from ID photocopies to bank account information so they could pay you for sales, minus the international wire transfer fee, of course, since expensive international wire transfer is the only way they pay you.

 

i'd also like to know if Jamie Murai was simply assuming about  Android devlopment.  the java-based Android simulator is so shockingly, painfully slow it's practically unusable.

 

finally, while i paid apple $99 for that one year, i publised only 2 apps.  had i been a hack developer or pushed out a bunch of useless / spam apps, unlimited app submissions would be been a steal.  my apps, which i worked hard on, are no longer on apple app store because i chose not to continue their developer program.  $200 per 10 app submissions is the only way to insure your app store will not be inundated by complete junk.


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Developer
JRab
Posts: 2,462
Registered: ‎11-04-2010
My Device: Bold 9700

Re: DEVBLOG: Thanks for the Open Letter to RIM Developer Relations

 


gluth wrote:

I've read letter and response, and seen similar complains about installation, process and others many times in the forum. I've experienced simulator crashes, hickups and terrifying SDK bugs which were driving me crazy. I know that those tools are in beta, I know that this device is not yet on the market; and that's the point of this all. Without pain there would be no profit. If there would be single easy to download SDK  with simulator included (like it is for BB phones development), easy WYSWIG GUI editor with support for QNX classes there would be no reason to give devices to developers.

Timer is ticking and RIM is trying to catch up with competition, they've released partly finished tools and simulator, they've also made a prize which closed our eyes for bugs.

Beuty of coding show itself when you can solve puzzles and handle issues, this is my favorite part of this job. I'm not the guy who cries in public when he cannot build application just with drag and drop with bouncing and dancing interface. It is clear to me, that when you are a pioneer you have to sometimes grab a shovel and digg some hole (write a bunch of console scripts) - when you are in gold rush you can dig many, many holes.

 


That is such a clever quote - awesome! haha

 

 

@darkin: that does make sense now that i think about it (fee for developing apps). still think that 200 is pretty high but hopefully they can find a good middle ground.

J. Rab (Blog) (Twitter)
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1. If you liked my post or found it useful please click on the thumbs up and provide a Like!
2. If my post solved your problem please click on the Accept as Solution button. Much appreciated!

Approved Apps: OnTrack | ssShots | Hangman
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