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Developer
T55555
Posts: 117
Registered: ‎12-03-2010

Re: While we wait for shipping info

 


EraserX wrote:
I can't believe there's a difference between mini and micro hdmi. I bought the wrong one!

 

This HDMI cable thing bother me too.

Not only connector size, there is also "type-version" get into play.

 

Two websites will help you understand HDMI stuffs:

 

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

On Connectors section:

Type-C is mini-HDMI ( type C connector is 2.42 mm × 10.42 mm )

Type-D is micro-HDMI ( type D connector is 2.8 mm × 6.4 mm )

 

Ok, assume that you bought the right connector (micro-HDMI), but it may still don't work "100%".

Because, now, the "type - version" come into play:

See the "Cables" section: ( from wikipedia - HDMI 1.4 specification )

  • Standard HDMI Cable - up to 1080i and 720p
  • Standard HDMI Cable with Ethernet
  • Automotive HDMI Cable
  • High Speed HDMI Cable - 1080p, 4K, 3D and Deep Color
  • High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet

As you can see, if you need transfer 3D content and if the cable type is not High Speed 3D,

then again, you will not have 3D stuff. ( I am not sure PlayBook will need such High Speed 3D thing )

 

And also because of this reason that some micro-HDML cables even can plug-into smartphone, but still don't work well.

 

(2) Second website to get more information is:

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/finding_right_cable.aspx

 

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Developer
biggerCC
Posts: 270
Registered: ‎12-13-2010
My Carrier: o2 (de)

Re: While we wait for shipping info

All Micro HDMI cables (called D type) comply to the HDMI 1.4 standard, which means: full 1080p (indeed up to at least 1440p) and theoretically even 3D. This is due to the simple fact, that Micro HDMI was officially introduced with the HDMI 1.4 in Mid 2009.

And don't worry about your old cables: most changes only affect the supported formats (audio / video codecs and data transmissions) and as a fact only the connected devices. Most likely even the cable you bought before 2005 will just work fine.

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Developer
peter9477
Posts: 6,447
Registered: ‎12-08-2010
My Carrier: none

Re: While we wait for shipping info

If a new connector style is introduced in a new standard, it doesn't necessarily mean that any use of that connector implies compliance with the rest of the standard.

 

Also, the connector type doesn't imply any particular type of conductor, shielding, etc, unless the standard is very explicit on all of that.  That could mean that anyone could produce a microHDMI cable capable of carrying data only up to the bandwidth required for 720p, making it unsuitable for 1080p.

 

If a cable did not explicitly specify that it's suitable for 1080p, or the appropriate bandwidth, I wouldn't touch it unless I had an application where I was certain I would never need that.  For use with the PlayBook, I certainly wouldn't buy it.


Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
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Developer
EraserX
Posts: 168
Registered: ‎01-13-2011

Re: While we wait for shipping info

Well this time I ordered some typeD micro hdmi cables from monoprice. They better be the right ones.
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Developer
biggerCC
Posts: 270
Registered: ‎12-13-2010
My Carrier: o2 (de)

Re: While we wait for shipping info

As I already said: don't worry. No HDMI cable ever did transmit less than 1080p. Yup, even 1.0 (standardized almost ten years ago) was capable of that... :smileyhappy:

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peter9477
Posts: 6,447
Registered: ‎12-08-2010
My Carrier: none

Re: While we wait for shipping info

 


biggerCC wrote:

As I already said: don't worry. No HDMI cable ever did transmit less than 1080p. Yup, even 1.0 (standardized almost ten years ago) was capable of that... :smileyhappy:


I'm pretty sure that's just simply not the case.  Cables that are not designed to meet the specifications for 1080p can carry lower data rates perfectly well, but will either be unreliable for 1080p or may simply not work at all.  This FAQ entry at hdmi.org, for example, notes the different data rates required.

 

 

True, it doesn't actually say that a cable marked as tested for 720p will not carry 1080p data.  That's possible... same as how CPUs rated for lower clock speeds may be built in the same process as the higher-clocked ones, and the only difference is in whether they've been tested at the higher rate or not.  (Thence the overclocking industry...  but in other cases, the lower speed chips really don't function reliably at the higher clock rates.)

 

On the other hand, it's quite possible to design a cable with lower-grade and cheaper materials, or a worse design, with the result that the waveform is attenuated too much and doesn't quite meet the technical specs required for the highest data rates.  In that case, as I said above, the cable may function some of the time, or simply not at all, for 1080p.

 

Saying "no cable ever did less than 1080p" implies that you've examined all models of cable and verified with the right equipment that they meet the requirements for 1080p under most conditions.  Somehow I doubt that's the case... :smileyhappy:


Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
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Developer
biggerCC
Posts: 270
Registered: ‎12-13-2010
My Carrier: o2 (de)

Re: While we wait for shipping info

 


peter9477 wrote:

 

Saying "no cable ever did less than 1080p" implies that you've examined all models of cable and verified with the right equipment that they meet the requirements for 1080p under most conditions.  Somehow I doubt that's the case... :smileyhappy:


 

I have not - indeed.

Two things:

 

1.) hdmi.org is everything but a charitable or non-profit organization. It's operated by "HDMI Licencing LLC", who sell licences for their neat (trademarked) stickers. They have a real reason to differentiate, where there's no difference. It's no analog cable where little interferences has direct influence upon image quality. Instead these cables transmit digitally, the protocal has error correction embedded and there would be no image shown at all, if the cable should be faulty. That said: no cable may call itself HDMI if it is not "capable" of transmitting 1080p. There has never been any slower transmission rate than 3,96 GBit/s, which is sufficient for all your PlayBook needs.

 

2.) This discussion is somewhat a flashback to a discussion I had with a friend some years ago. I laughed, because he got a cable for 60€ (85$). Just to prove him false I ordered the cheapest alternative (~3€) from eBay. It did not look anywhere as nice as his cable, but did the job. Like any other (non-defect) cable stating "HDMI" would do for 1080p.

 

I'd bet a beer that you won't find a cable that does 720p but not 1080p (in a normal usecase, which means: length < 5m and other cables do the same job). Mmmm, beer. Flying to Munich this evening... :smileywink:

 

At least I admit, that you might really need better insulation inside your wire for special purposes (2160p, Deep Color RGB, TrueHD or dts-HD), where the bitrate goes up to 8,16 GBit/s - CAT6 like.

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Developer
peter9477
Posts: 6,447
Registered: ‎12-08-2010
My Carrier: none

Re: While we wait for shipping info

 


biggerCC wrote: 

I'd bet a beer that you won't find a cable that does 720p but not 1080p (in a normal usecase, which means: length < 5m and other cables do the same job). Mmmm, beer. Flying to Munich this evening... :smileywink:

 

At least I admit, that you might really need better insulation inside your wire for special purposes (2160p, Deep Color RGB, TrueHD or dts-HD), where the bitrate goes up to 8,16 GBit/s - CAT6 like.


 

I'm glad you added that "normal usecase" part.  The last HDMI cable I installed was for a run from the back of a church sanctuary up to the front, which was something like 60-70 feet as I recall, maybe longer.  As you can imagine, cheaping out wasn't an option there.  (I believe we ultimately went with a Cat-6 based repeater, because the length was such that only a 720p signal would make it through reliable, not a 1080p one as we needed.)

 

I've had this discussion many times before too.  One key thing to remember is that, as you say, under typical uses, almost anything works.

 

The other thing, which matters more as you get to the extremes, is that transmission of very high-speed digital data involves issues that are very much analog.... only if the analog receiver gets a strong and clean enough signal will it be possible for the signal to be turned back into the digital data that was put into it.  HDMI is a digital standard as far as the data goes, but as with any such (even lowly RS232), the signalling waveform is fundamentally analog.

 

I don't think we're disagreeing... I'm just being more pedantic than you are. :smileyhappy:


Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
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Developer
tags07
Posts: 386
Registered: ‎12-12-2010
My Carrier: Sprint

Re: While we wait for shipping info

Currently killing time sketching with random people on the net here: http://mrdoob.com/projects/multiuserpad/

Kind of fun and Addictive for sure... you can see some of the sketchins posted here: http://multisketchpad.posterous.com/

 

See if you can spot mine...

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Contributor
benjismith
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
My Carrier: Developer

Re: While we wait for shipping info

I passed the time today by setting up a new website for my app: http://www.twystem.com

 

I'm pretty happy with it :smileyhappy:

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An addictive new puzzle game for PlayBook: Twystem HD
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