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Forums Advisor III
jerryg50
Posts: 1,169
Registered: ‎02-28-2009
My Device: Torch, Bold, Play Book, and Bluetooth HS-700
My Carrier: BELL

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

I use the Playbook from 4 to 6 hours each day on the average. I found it uses the battery rate at between 7% to 11% per hour depending on what I am doing. To be safe, I calculate the battery useage at about 10% per hour when in use.Therefore, I should expect to get between 9 and 11 hours maximum before it would shut down.

 

Jerry G.

 

Jerry G.
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New Contributor
mpalindat
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎06-15-2011
My Device: Curve 9300/Playbook 16 GB
My Carrier: TELUS

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

exactly around what i experience with it. mind you mine is one week old today. question regarding non PB charger: if it just shows a power plug symbol on battery does that mean it isn't charging?
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Forums Advisor III
jerryg50
Posts: 1,169
Registered: ‎02-28-2009
My Device: Torch, Bold, Play Book, and Bluetooth HS-700
My Carrier: BELL

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

If you do not see the lightning symbol in the green battery symbol, the Playbook is not charging properly. It is recommended to use the charger that came with it.

 

The charger that came with the Playbook is a 1.8 Amp, or 1800 ma charger. The charger that comes with the phone is a 700 ma charger. It cannot supply enough current to properly charge the Lithium battery inside of the tablet.

 

The battery inside the of the Playbook is approximately 5000 ma. The so-called breakover or threshold current to activate charging on a battery of this size is approximately 1250 ma with zero load on the battery. The 700 ma charger is under the threshold for properly charging that battery.

 

Blackberry has a quick charger for the Playbook. I bought a number of them to leave at different locations where I have to stay at times. This one uses a magnetic contact connector on it. This charger is a very good one. It is about the size of a small laptop charger.  It charges the tablet somewhat faster than the charger that comes with it. Most places that sell the Playbook also sell the Blackberry Playbook quick charger.

 

I strongly recommend to not use a clone charger with the Playbook. I know of someone who tested a number of them and had poor results. Only get the original charger.

 

 

Jerry G.

 

Jerry G.
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Developer
peter9477
Posts: 6,473
Registered: ‎12-08-2010
My Device: PlayBook, Z10
My Carrier: none

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled


jerryg50 wrote:

The battery inside the of the Playbook is approximately 5000 ma. The so-called breakover or threshold current to activate charging on a battery of this size is approximately 1250 ma with zero load on the battery. The 700 ma charger is under the threshold for properly charging that battery.


Jerry, you keep posting stuff like this, but without any sources.  I'm starting to not believe it, because each time I go to research any of this stuff, I find a surprising lack of information about any of it.  The terms "breakover" and "threshold current" hardly even show up in the literature, and in the latter case don't appear to cover the same concept you're describing.

 

In effect, you're saying that charging via USB, which manages a max of 500mA (nominal), simply doesn't work, or is going to damage the battery or something.  That's the only way I can interpret "improper charging", unless you consider "doesn't charge as fast as the bigger charger" to be "improper".  I find no evidence that this is how things work, and don't really believe RIM would be shipping a device and advising us we could use USB to charge it if it were going to damage the battery.

 

Could you post any references that back up your claims on any of this stuff?  I'd be happy to be proven wrong... I clearly am not the expert in Li-ion batteries that you seem to be, but I'd like to learn based on reliable sources that I can read for myself and understand the fundamentals.


Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
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Super Contributor
cuse165
Posts: 280
Registered: ‎10-07-2009
My Device: Blackberry Bold 9930,Blackberry Playbook(32GB)

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

[ Edited ]

I am not sure why people are still talking about how to charge the PB. The question was can I use a BB charger to charge the PB the answer is yes. RIM told me you can and other users have no issues doing it. So I do not understand why we are still caring on about it. Just seems like its beating a dead horse and throwing out irrelevant information.

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cuse165
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Guru III
knottyrope
Posts: 30,117
Registered: ‎06-25-2008
My Device:

I'm rockin the BlackBerry Z30, Z10, Q10, BlackBerry Mini Stereo Speaker, 64 gig PlayBook, BlackBerry Wireless Headset HS-700

My Carrier: I am on AT&T. Please edit your Personal Profile with your DEVICE TYPE, DEVICE OS and Carrier

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

agreed. the smartphone charger works well for me. if it can not be used, the playbook would tell us.

 




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Forums Advisor III
jerryg50
Posts: 1,169
Registered: ‎02-28-2009
My Device: Torch, Bold, Play Book, and Bluetooth HS-700
My Carrier: BELL

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

[ Edited ]

When the PB is charging you should see a lightning symbol on top of the green battery symbol.

 

With a clone charger there is no guarantee that the device will be properly charging. Clone chargers are generally designed to support many products. Most all of them have different specs, and thus the charging current and voltage may not be optimum for any one particular product.

 

With the clone charger I would not trust it with such an expensive device as the Blackberry tablet or the phone. If something goes wrong with the charger and the device is damaged, their could be warranty issues.

 

 

Jerry G.

 

Jerry G.
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Forums Advisor III
jerryg50
Posts: 1,169
Registered: ‎02-28-2009
My Device: Torch, Bold, Play Book, and Bluetooth HS-700
My Carrier: BELL

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

Below is a link about Lithium and other types of chargeable battery theory. There is a lot involved.

 

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

 

Some simple info about the types of Lithium batteries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

 

 

The chemistry behind Lithium, lead acid, and NiCad battery design is fairly complex. Charging them properly is not as simple as directly applying a voltage to the battery. The lead acid battery is the most forgiving. With some simple current regulation they can be charged. With any battery charging there are issues with over heating and causing boil over. There are issues of charging above the threshold current to activate the chemical reaction.

 

Battery design and the systems for charging are a very involved science with a great deal of engineering. The charger you use looks simple, but what goes on is not.

 

Going back more than twenty years ago, I used to design battery charging systems for industrial applications. (I am fairly old now, I don't want to say my age...). 

 

There is a lot of informatioin on the net if you research this out. It would take a lot of time to sort through the sites the advertize to sell products vs the ones that give proper information.

 

If you contact the battery manufactures, they can give out the engineering specificatioins for their batteries. They will not usually give out particular details of the particular chemistry they use for their products for obvious reasons.

 

 

Jerry G.

 

 

Jerry G.
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Developer
peter9477
Posts: 6,473
Registered: ‎12-08-2010
My Device: PlayBook, Z10
My Carrier: none

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

Thanks, jerryg50.  I've already read those articles, and many others.  They do not support the claims you've been making in several respects, and in fact appear to contradict them in some cases.

 

From the batteryuniversity.com page: "Charge absorption is very high and with a low and intermittent charge, charging simply takes a little longer without negatively affecting the battery."  To me that suggests there's no real problem with charging with a low current.  It works, doesn't harm the battery, and merely takes longer.

 

Another statement made there says it's actually best for the battery lifetime, if not for the capacity of a given charging cycle, not to charge it all the way (i.e. by holding at 4.2V until the current drops well off).  I think in an earlier post you'd said the opposite, recommending to always and often charge the battery fully (I may be misremembering... my apologies if that's not an accurate recollection).

 

I wonder if the batteries twenty years ago were simply different.  The Wikipedia page notes that the very first commercial Li-ion batteries were released by Sony in 1991, exactly 20 years ago.  I suspect they've changed a fair bit since then. 

 

But if you do have a link to a page that specifically discusses where "breakover", "minimum charge current", or similar concepts apply to Li-ion batteries, I'd still like to read about it, as there could easily be a glaring gap in my understanding somewhere.  I could imagine that there is some size of charger, maybe 100mA, which would be incapable of charging these batteries at all, but given that the 500mA of USB works perfectly well, if slowly, I'm curious to know where that lower limit actually lies, if there is one.  Certainly not up at 1.2A or whatever it was...


Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
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New Contributor
Kranek
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎04-28-2011
My Device: Playbook
My Carrier: None

Re: Lithium battery myths dispelled

A note about the Playbook not charging when turned off.  Even when off it will charge using a computer and usb cable.  Just get it charged enough to turn it on then switch to the wall charger.  I sell the playbook and we ran into this on one that was returned because it wouldn't charge.  This is the solution sent to us from RIM.

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