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Developer
peter9477
Posts: 6,448
Registered: ‎12-08-2010
My Carrier: none

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction


leylandrichard wrote:

As noted in our blog post, the central decision we've made on PayPal fees is to pass on the costs we incur. We will gladly consider any measures which continue to do that, but which mitigate the overall effect on developers.


I think this is the key.  Developers will (or should, and need to) understand something about the costs involved, and understand where you're merely passing on costs and where you're making a profit. Nobody should begrudge anyone else a reasonable profit, and certainly even a developer charging $0.99 per app and making only $10 a month should be able to see themselves on the other side of the table, when an unreasonable user complains they shouldn't have to pay anything (or as much) for that app.

 

That said, if you're using something like wire transfers (which I thought were USD$10 typically) then those have a fixed cost per transfer, not a percentage. You can't avoid that, and developers would have to pay it, so perhaps allowing a developer to customize the level at which payment occurs would be possible.

 

Likewise, if your costs are based on a percentage, then developers have to accept that as well, but obviously that percentage needs to be reasonable or we'll all question why the maximum cost isn't capped, or you can't find an alternate system which is cheaper.

 

Ultimately transparency is critical, but also some degree of control (e.g. to set a minimum balance before a payment) usually goes a long way to avoiding the feeling that one is being taken advantage of.

 

Personally, my concern is not so much the fee (since right now I'm making enough that the fixed amounts in question are relatively small) as it is my inability to reconcile the statements adequately. Between BB's vendor portal reports, and the four different companies involved in payments (counting Digital River's two separate entities), I can't see any way to actually verify that what I'm being paid is correct, except in the grossest sense. At least, so far things aren't adding up closely enough for me to be confident some isn't going missing, or to know what unexpected tax is affecting me.

 

By the way, the fact you're even engaging with us here vastlychanges my impression of Bango. Find whoever suggested/approved that and make sure they're appreciated. :-)


Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
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Developer
Apodidae
Posts: 57
Registered: ‎10-29-2010
My Carrier: T-Mobile

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction

Thanks again for being a part of this conversation, Richard. As an indie developer, it's good to know that Bango is listening.

 

As it sits right now, it'll take $71 in gross sales to receive $44 (39% is fees and commission) via PayPal, with only receiving $30 from those same sales if paid by bank transfer (62% in fees and commission). That's a pretty big chunk to be taken out of someone's paycheck.

 

I can completey understand the need to offset fees. I think what has upset so many has been just the idea of flat fees without considering the amount being paid. I would think a capped dollar amount tied to a percentage would have been a better option, especially with bank transfers. That way, indie developers who might take a couple of months to hit the $50 payout wouldn't feel like they are paying a large amount back (12% PayPal, 40% bank transfer). Maybe it would have been better to have gone with something like a 5% payout fee, with a $25 cap. 

 

As long as I have a detailed report that I can reconcile back to the initial sales transactions, and can see the value that a small fee can have on additional sales (via carrier billing). I would have no problem with that. 

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Developer
mmd12
Posts: 112
Registered: ‎03-13-2012
My Carrier: T-Mobile

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction

I have 2 suggestions.

 

1.  Review your costs in light of the fact that I routinely receive small payments from Digital River and BB Commerce to my PayPal account without any fee.  The smallest I've seen is $1.28.

 

2.  Consider talking to BB Commerce to see if they can disburse the funds for you.  This would entail a single monthly payment to BB Commerce along with electronic information of the details (which developers get what payment).  They can then combine whatever payments are due me with their own payments.  If you can do this, it would avoid any accumulations you do to the $50.00 minimum.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

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Developer
adwiv
Posts: 303
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction


davide13 wrote:
I agree, now who earns 10.000$ pay 20$ and who earns 100$ pay 20$ too. It's not fair!

First thing: A person who earns $100 should not opt for wire transfer. They should go with paypal only. If you are unhappy with the $20 being charged by Bango, you'll be further angry when the intermediary banks and your bank deduct $5-$10 each as handling charges for the wire transfer.

 

Whether you like it or not, banks charge a flat fees for for wire transactions. For them, the cost of handling a million dollar wire transfer is same as the cost of ten dollar transfer.

 

A fixed fees for wire transfers is the only right thing and truely reflects the cost involved in the tranfer.

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Developer
adwiv
Posts: 303
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction

For paypal payments, the transaction costs for mass payments is as follows:

 

Quoted from (https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/mass-payments)

 

For Mass Payments to recipients within the U.S., the fee is 2% of total up to $1 per payment. For Mass Payments to recipients outside the U.S., the fee is 2% of total up to a maximum of $20.00 USD per payment, or the foreign currency equivalent of $20.00 USD.

 

Hence I feel for paypal transactions, instead of flat fees, it should be percent based with a cap.

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Developer
Apodidae
Posts: 57
Registered: ‎10-29-2010
My Carrier: T-Mobile

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction

The issue comes from countries that do not accept PayPal. The only option for them is bank transfer.I defeinitely agree that PayPal is the better choice in these circumstances, although that might not be an option for everyone.

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Developer
adwiv
Posts: 303
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction

Apodidae wrote:

The issue comes from countries that do not accept PayPal. The only option for them is bank transfer.I defeinitely agree that PayPal is the better choice in these circumstances, although that might not be an option for everyone.


First these are so few countries with so few developers that do not accept PayPal. Atleast most of the active people on this thread are not from countries that do not accept PayPal.

 

And if you are from such a country, then probably you will not have international banks too so you will need an intermediary bank for wire transfer. They will also deduct fees which will probably be in the range of $10-20.

 

The only way out of this mess if you are from a country that does not support paypal is to earn a lot more than $50 :-)

 

Also, as I had said earlier, if you are able to make just around $50 a month, the transaction fees should be the least of your concern.

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Developer
QuiteSimple
Posts: 1,447
Registered: ‎11-06-2009
My Carrier: WiFi

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction

My suggestions:

 

1) Postpone the bank transfer fee change for several months (PayPal fee change cannot be avoided AFAIK because of the PayPal terms changes). Why postpone this change? Because:

a) the demographics of BB developers is different: before you had to deal with tens of developers making hundreds of dollars, now is the opposite: hundred of developers making tens of dollars monthly. There are much more hobbyists and weekend coders developing apps with BB10

b) BB10 is new platform, i.e. not enough exposure yet, only 2-3 millions devices out there, Q5 is still not for sale (and it is for emerging markets, where the carrier billing is the real force)

So my point is: give some time for devs to make some money and then introduce the changes in bank transfer fee.

 

2) Allow devs to set their own minimum payment limit, i.e. not the default $50, but $100, $500 or whatever the given dev decides as suitable. So everyone will make decision on his/her own what is best payment method (be it PayPal or wire transfer) and how long to wait for the earned money. Btw Mobihand has operated this way for years (and they charged for wire transfer $20 too) and everyone was happy with Mobihand.



"When you become a level 3 developer, you learn to communicate over the ether. I'm told that level 5 developers are ascend into a higher level of existence beyond the physical realm." gord888 @ crackberry
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Developer
Ebscer
Posts: 823
Registered: ‎08-31-2009
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction

I am sorry but Bango needs to learn to absorb these fees. Every month I get paid by BlackBerry Comerce and get my full 70%. Every month I get paid by Digital River and get my full 70%. Every month I get paid by Google and get my full 70%. Every month I get paid by Barnes and Noble and get my full 70%. Every month I get paid by Amazon and get my full 70%. Why should I expect anything less from Bango?

 

Bango's internal costs are not my problem. Pay the money you owe me...


Read my thoughts on BlackBerry Development at news.ebscer.com
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New Developer
PlayBookDave
Posts: 52
Registered: ‎01-09-2012
My Carrier: Fido

Re: Bango rips-off developers by charging 6$ per transaction

So whats the deal with Bango i recently signed up  to be a vendor and checked both digital river and Bango options cause i had no choice otherwise to continue the sign up process to be a vendor. So if i charge a nominal fee under the transaction fee that means per transaction i'm going in the red cause my profits wont pay their fee wtf ...This peeving me at the moment and i'm now thinking i'm gona raise my fee of my app to off set that b.s transaction fee.

 

 

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