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Developer
silver20
Posts: 455
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
My Device: Paper cup

Re: Copycats are killing devs

 

Smiley, would you happen to be the same poster as Smiley88 at CrackBerry, a.k.a. Toysoft Development?  The publisher of Silent Camera, and referring to the other Silent Camera recently published by Droid Mobile Software?

If no, then please disregard this post and inform me so I can edit it while that's still possible.  But if you are Smiley88, then perhaps you are pointing a finger while 3 of your own fingers are pointing right back at you?

 

Let's take a quick look at Smiley88's current catalog:

 

Wallpaper Changer

- very similar (and subsequent to) the app of exactly the same name, Wallpaper Changer, by ShaoSoft

 

Jewel Break

- similar (and subsequent to) Electronic Arts' famous long-time bestseller Bejeweled

 

Bubble Pop It Game

- similar (and subsequent to) the many Bubble Breaker, Bubble Army, Bubble Defense, Bubble Burst, etc. games

 

Fake Call

- similar (and subsequent to) other apps with the same name and purpose

 

Farts

- yes that's very original, Smiley88 didn't copy that from anyone, Smiley88 is the one we have to thank for inventing fart apps.

 

Relaxing Nature Sounds

- similar (and subsequent to) White Noise, a long-time very-lucrative bestselling app -- until copycats took it down

 

Police Lights

- similar (and subsequent to) the concept of other apps, i.e. Cop Lights, BB Cop Lights, RollerFlash

 

Virtual Hair

- saw something like that back in, uh, 2008 on the iPhone

 

Super Power

- Similar (and subquent to) S4BB's long-time high best-selling app Smart WiFi -- right down to the green icon with power symbol very similar to S4BB's icon

 

AutoWiFi

- another icon and app very similar to the original bestseller by S4BB, Smart WiFi, which I have not seen on page 1 of top paid recently

 

RunningIcon

- very similar (and subsequent to) What's Running in My Phone?

 

Lock It

- subsequent to other successful apps with the same purpose


BatteryInfo

- it doesn't have a slider but it's certainly an imitation of the iPhone's battery screen

 

Mega Farts - Fart Application

- another original

 

NotNow - Ignore call and send friendly SMS

- very similar (and subsequent to) The Jared Company's ASAP - Ignore Call and Send Custom SMS

 

Clock

- a homescreen clock, similar (and subsequent to) multiple other such apps

 

Camera Mute

- same name and purpose as (and showing as published 1 month after) Camera Mute by GlibSoft

 

QuickCam - Camera with multiple takes and timer

- there have been several previous camera timer apps, i.e. from MobiDala and S4BB, and one or two previous multi-trigger apps

 

... I could go on, but you probably have got the point by now.  This developer seems like an occasional innovator, but also a determined copycat.  I'm not suggesting for a moment any wrongdoing -- actually as I look over Smiley88's catalog, I see him scrupulously leaving just enough room around others' patents, copyrights, and possible trademarks to avoid infringement, but also shamelessly copying where the other vendor's work is indefensible, i.e. the title is too generic or descriptive to be a trademark.  For example, Wallpaper Changer, which is analogous to someone else copying Silent Camera.  And, of course, there is the blatant copying of the concepts and functions of other developers' successful apps, with little apparent attempt to improve upon their ideas, although there are some obvious improvements that deserve success.

 

Basically it's all valid competition, especially the improvements... but most likely also gets under the skin of the other developers as they watch copycats decimate their profits from their original work.  I'll bet some of them have had similar sentiments to that Smiley has been expressing here.

 

If Smiley does indeed = Smiley88 = Toysoft, then the only thing I'm criticizing is his brutal criticism and condemnation of others, if it could just as well be directed at himself.  or herself, I'm sorry, I don't know.  It's shocking to peruse that catalog and then re-read quotes such as:

 

----------------------------------

 

This morning just notice a copycat devs who had just released two apps that are almost 100% indentical to my apps.

 

These copycats are killing my sales and another reason to leave the BB.

 

These people don't any any orginalities and they are out to steal other peoples ideas.

 

this game droid moible copied my app 100% download the app name.  If you view this apps they are all copycats.

 

I'm trying to contact someone at rim to see what action they can take. Obviously they are illegal and stealing our ideas.  This really p*ssing me off.

 

If RIM does not do anything then might as well pack up and do something else.

 

They copied every single feature of my apps down to the name of the app.  These guys are just crooks.  they should be banned from appworld.

 

----------------------------------

 

The remark about Droid Mobile publishing an app with the same name leaves few possibilities as to who Smiley could be... it's unlikely that he's "What'sApp", since that vendor only has 1 app published under its name and Smiley referred to copies of 2 of his apps "just released".  Droid Mobile's most recent 2 releases are "Silent Camera" and "Profile Switcher", and ToySoft has "Silent Camera", "Profile switching", and "Profile Changer".  Also, Toysoft's developer goes by the name Smiley88 in other forums such as CrackBerry.com and Pinstack.com .

 

Sorry to say anything, Smiley and Toysoft, if you are not connected... but, if you are, you just really got under my skin, like a pot calling the kettle black and saying it should be melted down and scrapped.  It's best either to live by your own rules, or stop preaching.

 

Developer
smiley
Posts: 1,497
Registered: ‎07-14-2008
My Device: Z10

Re: Copycats are killing devs


silver20 wrote:

 

Smiley, would you happen to be the same poster as Smiley88 at CrackBerry, a.k.a. Toysoft Development?  The publisher of Silent Camera, and referring to the other Silent Camera recently published by Droid Mobile Software?


 


Yes I'm.  Obviously you have no idea or know anything about Toysoft or me so please do not assume.  Let me see you a register user only since 03-4-2011.  do you really think I just put all the those apps yestoday? If you were around 4 years ago: 

 

Visual Arts (wallpaper changer) was the first app that allows you  to change wallpapers.  Go ask Shaosoft if you need verfication and ask when he released his version.

 

FakeCall - First BB app of this type.  It was ported over from the PalmOS which we did back to 2006

 

Bubble pop - a remake of our TapOMania game which was released for the BB and the PalmOS.  Do you know PalmOS?

 

I could go on with other apps.  Sure I have apps that are similar but I do not copy them 100% so please don't accuse me or tell false information because you know nothing about Toysoft.

Developer
QuiteSimple
Posts: 1,452
Registered: ‎11-06-2009
My Device: Torch 9810

Re: Copycats are killing devs

@silver20, no offence, but you somehow miss the point of the discussion. Yes, you are right, that at some point any of us has used another vendor idea. Yes, if you look at my apps you'll find for sure some apps, that are not original invention. Yes, I admit that I scan 'New Arrivals" section on a regular basis to check for a good idea buried in bad design, bad implementation or bad marketing. But the bottom line is "using idea", not copying an app entirely up to the description and icon. And everyone of us has developed at least one new and innovative app. Copycats don't innovate at all, they just copy.

 

Let me give you an example how a copycat ruin the market:

Let's say vendor A releases an innovative app, that becomes bestseller. Vendor B uses the idea and releases app, with less functionality but cheaper. Vendor D released app with more functionality but expensive. Vendor E releases app with better design with the same price. Vendor K releases app with ads. Vendor Z see that the market is already saturated and releases free app to promote his other apps. That's competition and free market. It's good for the users (as they can choose between many apps), it's good for the vendors (as many of them have made money of it). In three months users have spent $2000 (for example) to buy the app from different vendors, some users maybe purchases two or three apps to find the best one.

 

Now let's bring the copycat in the game:

Vendor A releases an innovative app, that becomes bestseller. Vendor C(copycat) copies the app (functionality, description, everything) and releases it as free app. Further vendor C uses his shady marketing approach and brut-force advertising to make the app as popular as possible. Vendor B, D, E, K decide that it's not worth to compete with the free app of vendor C and do nothing. User (of course) go for the free app, as it is the same as the paid. After few months vendor C pushes paid upgrade and gets $100. Vendor A probably has collected another $100 with his paid app.

 

With a copycat in the game it's bad for the users (they don't have much choice), it's bad for the vendors (no money), and it's bad for the market, because users are used to get everything for free and soon we all will end in Android-like market, where users just don't want to pay even for high quality apps.



"When you become a level 3 developer, you learn to communicate over the ether. I'm told that level 5 developers are ascend into a higher level of existence beyond the physical realm." gord888 @ crackberry
Developer
pyth
Posts: 508
Registered: ‎01-19-2011
My Device: My Trusty Red Plane

Re: Copycats are killing devs

@silver, I want to second that what QuiteSimple said. There's one thing of just copying the idea, but what I think is alot worse is to steal the whole application

 

I haven't taken a closer to all examples, but to add to the original thread: I don't think, taking 'just' the idea and doing something new with it is that bad. There are lots of cases when I even thought to myself 'this is a crappy app, it does what it should but soo bad i'll redo it myself'. Like any app that I deleted from my devices because I could do a better job. I see them as 'alternatives'

 

It's a different thing when someone steals the idea, steals the design, graphics, description and everything else he can steal. On PlayBook e.g. there's currently a problem because people can take the app files, unpack them, add their own name/signature to it, repack them and probably reuploading them to App World. That's so disgusting that I would want to punch those people right into their faces. Design costs money. Graphics cost money. Programming costs money. and people who steal it all and 'creating' an app in a few hours like that, those people are scum

 

Similar example: the programmers of canabalt (popular flash app, online free) decided to port their game to ios, and after a year, they released their code oon github for other people to learn. Who wouldn't have guessed, short time after, a similar app was in the iPhone market with a differernt name, graphics/design were the same, code probably as well. And even if one could say now the programmers should have never released their code: with decompilers you still get code from executables. if needed at all (see webworks apps)

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I'm a bird from outer space. But I'm not flappy o.o
Developer
silver20
Posts: 455
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
My Device: Paper cup

Re: Copycats are killing devs

[ Edited ]

I see your points.

 

Edited out the rest here, so it can be more a discussion about the subject than the o.p.

 

One thing I will still point out, though, is that the o.p. was screaming about someone copying Silent Camera right after he had published Camera Mute a month after GlibSoft's app of the same name.

 

He's mad that his lucrative product got copied and now he's making less money.  But that was after he had a few months of good income with no competition.  He has taken others down allowing them far less time to reap the rewards of their work.  They felt worse than you do now.

 

Developer
smiley
Posts: 1,497
Registered: ‎07-14-2008
My Device: Z10

Re: Copycats are killing devs

[ Edited ]

silver20 wrote:

I see your points.

 

Edited out the rest here, so it can be more a discussion about the subject than the o.p.

 

One thing I will still point out, though, is that the o.p. was screaming about someone copying Silent Camera right after he had published a copy of Camera Mute with the same name.  Also, the o.p. copied the promotional slogan in ASAP's title almost verbatim, only changing one word to avoid consequences.

 

He's mad that his lucrative product got copied and now he's making less money.  But that was after he had a few months of good income with no competition.  He has taken others down allowing them far less time to reap the rewards of their work.  They felt worse than you do now.

 


Look man! if you don't know what you are talking about please don't.  I have SilentCam way before Camera Mute or Shutup Camera.  Also I had an app called NotNow and IamBusy way before ASAP so don't give me this BS that i copied them.  Get your facts straight.

 

Developer
silver20
Posts: 455
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
My Device: Paper cup

Re: Copycats are killing devs

OK, I did make a mistake about "NotNow", it only has 6 reviews somehow but the earliest of those is from before ASAP was out.

Unable to edit that out of yesterday's post, only today's.

re. Camera Mute, what I meant was that your app "Camera Mute" was released just before you started this thread, and GlibSoft's app of exactly the same name has a release date a month earlier, with review dates confirming that.  Although the function of the app was probably inspired by the success of your Silent Camera, it looks like GlibSoft did you the courtesy of calling their competing app something different, but then a month later you published one with the same name as theirs, then screamed about someone else copying your app's name.

Developer
gyubok
Posts: 520
Registered: ‎10-08-2009
My Device: Bold 9900

Re: Copycats are killing devs

I always wondered who was behind ToySoft! I actually went against their app as well with "SwitchIt" - a profile changer app which was pulled down several years back.

 

Anyways, I agree with the points you are making. Creating innovation is good but improving upon what other developers failed to deliver is also a fair game.

 

What AppsForBB is doing is morally wrong but I don't think there is any legal action we can take against them. RIM needs to weed out those companies and protect their developers. I mean, how the hell do they get close to 50k reviews for an app that have been released in February 27th of this year (less than 2 months)?!! I try to encourage all my users to write a review on my app as well but I barely got over 1000 so far... Could it be that the App World reviewing system got hacked or is rigged? It's even more fishy that they don't have a strong online presence. You can find AppsForBB on Twitter and Facebook but it looks like it's being run by a bot.

Developer
LSphone
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎02-08-2010
My Device: Torch 9800, Storm 9530, Curve 8330

Re: Copycats are killing devs

[ Edited ]

So glad you brought that up.  This has bothered me for years.  It does seem like there is a trick, because you'll see something jump up to #2 from nowhere all of a sudden, and then it falls gradually off the radar, and then some other app from the same developer will suddenly jump up to the top 10 from nowhere.

 

If you search on "Menu Clock", my two apps come up on top, one of which has been free for over a year and both seem superior to all the competition, but the free one only has 30 reviews showing, and 42 in total.

 

Then you see A4BB's below mine, which has 936 reviews that are left.  Now HOW DID THEY DO THAT?!  It has no screenshot and a short description, but I tried that too, and got less downloads like that.

 

Also there's Ajani's Digital Menu Clock , with 172 reviews even though it's a recently released Paid app midway down in the search results, and I have a superior Free app at the top with the same name and just 42 reviews after a year.  HOW CAN THAT BE?!

 

Developer
LSphone
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎02-08-2010
My Device: Torch 9800, Storm 9530, Curve 8330

Re: Copycats are killing devs

Oh, let me add something. Trying to get more reviews, I started adding a "Rate App or Contact Support" button to them, but it made no difference, there are still almost no reviews.