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New Developer
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎05-16-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Question about Terms and Conditions

 

Hi,

 

I have a question about the terms and conditions that have recently been updated, In the beginning it states:

 

 

1.3 "Application Revenue" means all revenue received by Vendor with respect to an Application distributed to an End User through the BlackBerry App World by RIM, and any updates and upgrades thereto whether distributed through the BlackBerry App World or otherwise, including without limitation revenue derived directly or indirectly, through the use of the Application by an End User, with respect to any content made available within or by an Application, subscription fees, transactions and microtransactions, but excluding:  (a) taxes, refunds and chargebacks; (b) any fees paid by an End User to an MoR to obtain a copy of the Application through an MoR Kiosk; and (c) any advertising revenue derived from an Application.

 

The section Application Revenue Fee states:

 

Vendor shall pay to RIM thirty percent (30%) of Application Revenue (which as defined in this Agreement excludes any fees paid by an End User to an MoR to obtain a copy of an Application through an MoR Kiosk) ("Application Revenue Fee") on a calendar quarterly basis in arrears, payable within thirty (30) days of the end of each calendar quarter.  Vendor shall provide to RIM a monthly report outlining calculation of the Application Revenue Fee for the applicable month in accordance with United States generally accepted accounting principles.  Vendor shall pay the Application Revenue Fee in United States dollars by electronic funds transfer as directed by RIM to Vendor in writing.

 

 

Now let's assume the following situation:

 

There is an an web-based application where users are paying a monthly fee to use the services. A mobile application exists which is distributed  through BlackBerry Appworld which is free that allows existing customer to get access to the site and allows new customers to signup to the site. 

 

Based on these statements I would have to pay a revenue fee for all the subscribers that I have gained through the application distributed through BlackBerry Appworld. This sounds impossible for me so I guess I must have misunderstood something, right?

 

Thanks for any clarification about this.

Moderator
Posts: 3,682
Registered: ‎12-02-2009
My Device: .
My Carrier: .

Re: Question about Terms and Conditions

going to forward this one to ADMIN. Hopefully they can give you a solid answer.

Jakoby4204                                                                                                 New to the Community click here  
Community Moderator
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New Contributor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎05-27-2010
My Device: 9500
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: Question about Terms and Conditions

Likewise hope to get these terms clarified and amended as soon as possible.  Until they are we're certainly not going to be offering our application through App World.

 

We have a similar situation to the OP - a web/mobile voting service that people can use free apps to vote on, but where we get paid by people who wish to run polls.

 

Reading the terms above it could be argued we'd have to pay RIM a %age of our revenues if anyone is voting using a Blackberry downloaded from App World.  I have two problems with that:

 

  1. We don't know whether an application was installed from App World or not, so we have no way to implement the test
  2. It's totally unreasonable for us to pay this

Looking forward to these terms being clarified and removed as soon as possible.

Retired
Posts: 585
Registered: ‎03-17-2009
My Device: Blackberry Bold
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Question about Terms and Conditions

Hi all;

 

Please see below response from our App World Storefront Manager:

__________________________________________________

 

RIM expects only a portion of the revenue you gain from NEW users that sign up as a result of your application being distributed through BlackBerry App World.

 

Specifically:

-          If you have existing users that go to BlackBerry App World to download the mobile version, we do NOT expect revenue from these users.

-          If a new user downloads your application from BlackBerry App World and then signs up, we DO expect revenue from this user.

 

Natalie │Research In Motion

App World Storefront Manager

_________________________________________________

 

I hope this helps,

Michelle

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-mk


 


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New Contributor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎05-27-2010
My Device: 9500
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: Question about Terms and Conditions

Thank you for the response and clarification.

 

Unfortunately this position seems unworkable, unenforceable and unfair. 

 

Unworkable as for example if my app does sign up by launching the browser, how can I tell if the user is new or old when they use the application?  How can a developer distinguish users using the app downloaded from App World versus one directly installed?

 

Unenforceable as the compliance and enforcement costs for RIM and developers will far exceed any revenues generated.

 

Unfair because it seeks to extract revenue not for a service being provided by RIM, but from ongoing revenue generated by the hard work of developers.  Would you buy a car from a dealer who insisted you pay them each time you put gas in?  No other application store tries to extort revenues like this - why do you think App World so special that it can do this?

 

Putting aside the fairness,  when will the T&Cs be updated to reflect this intent?  The current ones do not make this distinction clear and are open to the interpretation that you want some of all the revenues.

 

 

Developer
Posts: 101
Registered: ‎02-10-2009
My Device: Q10, Z10
My Carrier: T-Mobile

Re: Question about Terms and Conditions

If that is true companies like Amazon and ebay better quickly pull their apps from AppWorld. Could be very costly to share all revenue made by the use of these apps with RIM Smiley Happy

New Contributor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎05-27-2010
My Device: 9500
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: Question about Terms and Conditions

Sadly I suspect that the big companies have the legal teams to negotiate that part of the terms, so won't be paying.

 

It will be the small developers who get gouged.