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Developer
skynetchris
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎07-18-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Connecting through a BIS problem?

Hi all,

 

we have a customer that has downloaded our application over the air (jad file) and installed it fine. The application however doesn't seem to be able report data to our server via port 80? This seems really strange that the handset is downloading from our server via port 80 but the application can't send reports back?

 

The customer is using a BIS server.

 

I've noticed this strange behaviour when using an APN sim card.

 

any thoughts/ideas?

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Developer
peter_strange
Posts: 19,601
Registered: ‎07-14-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Connecting through a BIS problem?

What connection mechanism are you using?

 

If you haven't already looked at these, I would recommend reviewing

 

What Is - Different ways to make an HTTP or socket connection
DB-00396
http://tinyurl.com/3ynfr5

or

http://www.blackberry.com/knowledgecenterpublic/livelink.exe/fetch/2000/348583/800451/800563/What_Is...

 

Managing Wireless Data Transport on BlackBerry 4 - Part 1

http://www.blackberry.com/knowledgecenterpublic/livelink.exe?func=ll&objId=832210&objAction=browse&s...

 

Network Transports video:

http://na.blackberry.com/eng/developers/resources/videolibrary.jsp#tab_ddetail_subtab_jde

 

Your Browser download probably uses one of these mechanisms, but your application uses another.

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Developer
skynetchris
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎07-18-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Connecting through a BIS problem?

To answer my own question (taken from old BB forum):

 

The three methods available to establish HTTP type connections are:

1) Direct TCP
2) BES/MDS
3) Carrier WAP Gateway

It is not possible to establish an HTTP connection over the BIS service.

Jennifer Emery
BlackBerry Developer Journal
www.blackberrydeveloperjournal.com

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Administrator (Retired)
mkirkup
Posts: 179
Registered: ‎07-14-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Connecting through a BIS problem?

Actually, that isn't quite true today.  There are a variety of connection methods available on BlackBerry with the count being much larger than the three you list below which unfortunately simply adds to the confusion.

 

I would strongly encourage you to watch the networking video that Peter Strange linked to above for more information on the different transports and how you might use them.

 

Mike Kirkup
Director, Developer Relations
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Developer
skynetchris
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎07-18-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Connecting through a BIS problem?

Hi mkirkup,

 

I have watched that video, and while it does talk at a 'highlevel' of what is occuring under the hood, it provides no explanations or examples. It DOES refer to the three methods mentioned above as the ways of connecting via an application.

 

Happy to be proven wrong.

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Developer
peter_strange
Posts: 19,601
Registered: ‎07-14-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Connecting through a BIS problem?

I too would recommend the video, it is the only place where I've seen all connection options that I know about, summarized. 

 

I've just re-watched it, and have the following comments in response to the post above.

 

The opening slide lists these 5 connection methods:

BES/MDS

BIS-B

Direct TCP

WAP (in various guises)

WiFi

 

And the presentation also takes about Serial Bypass. 

 

The parameters required (e.g. ";deviceside=false") are shown on the slides and explained by the 'narrator', so while there may not be code examples, I do think this video does provide a good explanation of the methods.

 

Also, I have working code (in the wild, running on 4.2 and earlier devices) which suggests the comment above from Jennifer Emery "It is not possible to establish an HTTP connection over the BIS service" is not correct.

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Developer
skynetchris
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎07-18-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Connecting through a BIS problem?

[ Edited ]

peter_strange wrote:

 

I've just re-watched it, and have the following comments in response to the post above.

 

The opening slide lists these 5 connection methods:

BES/MDS

BIS-B

Direct TCP

WAP (in various guises)

WiFi

 

And the presentation also takes about Serial Bypass. 


 

Ok, so lets clarify a few points for the uninitiated. When they talk about serial bypass (having a USB cable connected) this more often than not would defeat the purpose of having a mobile phone.

 

Wifi assumes your within range of a wifi spot that allows your connection, again not really a practical solution.

 


The parameters required (e.g. ";deviceside=false")


 

This alternative of bypassing BIS/BES and transmiting via the carrier will result in the user of your program incurring a very large data charge (depending on the volumes your application is transmitting). So in my case, I want to avoid it at all costs.

 


Also, I have working code (in the wild, running on 4.2 and earlier devices) which suggests the comment above from Jennifer Emery "It is not possible to establish an HTTP connection over the BIS service" is not correct.


 

Exactly, this what leads to the confusion, people at RIM dont even know whats possible :smileysad:

Thanks for the post peter, the more we all talk about it, the clearer it will get for everyone.

Message Edited by skynetchris on 08-04-2008 11:14 PM
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Developer
richard_puckett
Posts: 191
Registered: ‎04-03-2008
My Device: Bold 9700

Re: Connecting through a BIS problem?

BIS goes through RIM's infrastructure and RIM does not want "unauthorized" third parties piping their data through it.  I think RIM's people knew what was possible, but possbily elected to shut down the dialog because they simply were/are not interested in discussing it.  If you want to look into getting legitimate access to BIS I'd suggest contact RIM about it.  Any code samples posted here will probably be deleted.

 

To your other points: Serial bypass doesn't obviate a need for a cellphone.  It just routes data over a serial connection instead of over the air when such a connection is available.  Similar with wifi.  Some people out there didn't buy a data plan with their BlackBerry but might want to use their device to access the net while they're at home or at their favorite hotspot (or maybe they're like me a few years ago and work in the third basement of some building and don't get any cell signal).  If you provide a wifi connection method you'll be able to capture an albeit-slightly-larger user base.

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Developer
peter_strange
Posts: 19,601
Registered: ‎07-14-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Connecting through a BIS problem?

I concur with all Richard's points, but apologies, I feel compelled to waste bandwidth and add my 2p worth!

 

From the video, there are 4 wireless (using RIM's definition of wireless) connection methods.  The method, not listed in the 'solution', is BIS-B.  As the video states, BIS-B use is restricted, and the video was the first place I saw it documented in a public forum.  But if you need its capabilities for an application, then I suspect it is well worth going through the hoops to get it. 

 

WiFi and Serial Bypass are useful in the wild, for example, to provision the device when there is a significant amount of data to be sent to it.  In testing/development, WiFi is also very useful, and I find Serial Bypass extremely useful because it means I can have a device do things like send and receive emails, without a Sim. 

 

I think it is important to explain all these options to the "uninitiated" so that they can decide the best approach for their application (and testing/development).  They all have a potential role to play.  The video is the best explanation I have seen. 

 

The biggest problem for me, when trying to determine connection methods to use, is not what options are available, but making sure that the carrier actually supports a connection method and that the device is properly provisioned for that service.  For example, I believe there are number of carriers who don't support BIS-B

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