Welcome!

Welcome to the official BlackBerry Support Community Forums.

This is your resource to discuss support topics with your peers, and learn from each other.

inside custom component

Java Development

Reply
Developer
superdirt
Posts: 541
Registered: ‎05-17-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

What should I say when my customers email me saying, "Hey, I just got the new BlackBerry with BBX, but I can't download that app of yours I used on my last two devices. Can you help me out? I need the files for work tomorrow. Big day."

 

What do I say?

 

"RIM decided not to support the programs I made prior to BBX. I'm sorry, I can't help you at the moment."

 

"I do not have the resources to convert that program to the new operating system."

 

"Try one of my competitors."

 

I look forward to answering tens of thousands of emails with me being viewed as the fall guy.

 

Scott

Please use plain text.
Developer
silver20
Posts: 455
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
My Device: Paper cup

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

What animal is this similar to?

Attribute 1: A tongue that goes in two directions at once:

Exhibit 1a: "BlackBerry 6 (or 7). They're not apps; they're Super Apps! In case you have no common sense, that means we're trying to get you to buy a BlackBerry rather than an Android by implying BlackBerry apps are a much Super-ior experience to Android apps."

Exhibit 1b: "BlackBerry 7 apps would be such a bad experience even on a dual-core fast CPU running QNX, that we can't let them on the platform, even though customers will want them. However, Android apps (even very old and bad ones) DO deliver a good enough experience, so we've taken great pains to support them."

Attribute 2: Moves sharply back and forth to get ahead.

Exhibit 2a: "A player for BlackBerry apps is coming to QNX. We have also called up developers to push them to write for BlackBerry 7 rather than jumping over to Android and waiting for the Android player for QNX. Taken together, this implies that QNX phones will run BlackBerry 7 apps, and you should not abandon the platform."

Exhibit 2b: "There will not be a BlackBerry app player for BBX. You all can now go to hell, we've just completely devalued your business, you can't even sell it if you need to. But thanks for staying with us long enough to support our stop-gap BlackBerry 7 release, instead of helping Android gain even more market share before we were ready to tap into their assets."

So... It has a tongue that goes in two directions at once, and changies direction sharply back and forth to get ahead. Which animal is that like?

Because we just got bitten by one.
Please use plain text.
Developer
cyberia61
Posts: 79
Registered: ‎01-01-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

I don't get this either.

 

If RIM can make an Android player, why not make a BBOS player or better a conversion tool.

Where there is a will there is a way.

 

What do  they base their decision on ?

It would be interesting to hear any sane response from them. 

 

Playbook is a flop, many reasons, one of which is a very poor app collection.

I keep reading the same line  "blah blah blah ...and the new apps are coming" 

Guys, re you sure? No one is buying the Playbook,  

I certainly would not,  but the new apps are coming and coming but have not come yet. 

 

Playbook runs on QNX,  one of the reasons there are no apps for it is that the are not many developers who can and willing to deveop for it.

Where would the developer force come from to develop SUPER QNX apps for the new "smart" phones?

 

According to RIM there are a 4-5 months till the new QNX BB release.

 

I would really like to hear something from RIM that DOES make sense for a change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please use plain text.
Developer
br14
Posts: 497
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

[ Edited ]

@

 

"Android is written in C but it has the Android runtime with a set of the core libraries of the Java SE, most of them"

 

Most Android apps use Java it's true. But much of the base OS is written in C. So Google could switch to another language in the same way RIM has switched.

 

In any case the decision to remove Java from BBX has everything to do with licensing Java. Do some research. Oracle and Google are the reason Java is not part of BBX.

 

And there's a distinct possibility that the fight between Oracle and Google could see Java die on ALL mobile devices. Including Android assuming Android continues to exists. Oracle may win a court injunction that bans the sale of ALL Android devices - at least in the USA. 

 

"They invested a lot in this stack, including the optimazation of Dalvik."

 

Read the article I linked earlier. Dalvik is optimised yes. But in creating Dalvik Google destroyed Java standards and breeched Oracles patents. Dalvik is designed to work around Oracle licensing rules. 

 

And anyway all Google wants is your data so it can sell it to the highest bidder. They don't really care about Android or Java or any other software they spawn.

 

Could RIM have handled the Java situation better? Absolutely. They should have considered the loss of investment by BlackBerry developers. And helped us to convert our code. Perhaps they will yet.

 

But this situation is a market reality and you can't blame them for making decisions that protect the long term interests of their company. It can't have been easy making this decision. And it seems likely more than one loyal employee has walked rather than be a part of the decision.

 

RIM has been at a competitive disadvantage to Android from the start because of licensing costs. And companies like Samsung and LG have dumped Android product at cost on the US market to destroy RIM and Nokia. Even Apple has suffered in recent months. It has nothing to do with apps or UI or any other feature. The carriers make more money from Android and so push the product.

 

In any case the message here is "get out of Java". Might as well because Java is kaput.

 

 

Please use plain text.
Developer
br14
Posts: 497
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX


smiley wrote:

If RIM can burn all the cash on the Android player why can they not do a Java player and support OS6/7 apps?

Even when Palm when to ARM they were able to support 68K apps.

 


Because if they license Java for the Playbook or BBX they'll be at a competitive disadvantage and have to charge a premium for equivalent products - not a great way to sell devices.

 

Whereas whatever decision is handed down with respect to the violation of patents by Android, RIM will suffer the same consequences as all other Android platforms. i.e. they'll all pay the same.

 

And I guess if RIM has enough other apps, they could pull the Android Player from devices and blame the courts.

Please use plain text.
Developer
cwong15
Posts: 193
Registered: ‎02-27-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Here are my thoughts on my blog, for what it's worth:

 

Twilight  of BlackBerry Java 

 

 

Please use plain text.
Developer
sblantipodi
Posts: 1,178
Registered: ‎02-19-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

I'm manging my head against the wall trying to port our apps from Native Android to Blackberry Player.

The player is absolutely basic, no important APIs is supported, old UI, wrong input mode, no licensing method, a crappy experience for every android apps.

 

Is this the android world that they want? A class C environment?

I don't know if I will definitely port our android apps on Blackberry, they look bad, I need to cut off too many features due to api lack. I'm evaluating to abandon RIM completely, for what they worth I think that they will go out from the market really soon.

Please use plain text.
Developer
cyberia61
Posts: 79
Registered: ‎01-01-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

There ae some guys lurking on this forum that passionately support the decision made by RIM and keep repeating over and over again, JAVA KAPUT.

 

are you guys payed by RIM to do so? sounds like that.

 

This forum is for JAVA develpers, if you think Java is kaput, I have nothing to say to you.

 

Cheers to the others  The loyal once. 

 

 

 

 

Please use plain text.
Developer
br14
Posts: 497
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX


cyberia61 wrote:

There ae some guys lurking on this forum that passionately support the decision made by RIM and keep repeating over and over again, JAVA KAPUT.

 

are you guys payed by RIM to do so? sounds like that.

 

This forum is for JAVA develpers, if you think Java is kaput, I have nothing to say to you.

 

Cheers to the others  The loyal once. 

 


I've worked on Java since 1998. It has fed and watered me for those years. 

 

I certainly don't support RIM's decision, nor the manner in which it has been communicated (which is little short of deception).

 

However, this question is much bigger than RIM and affects any Java platform. Watch the news over the next year.

 

It is about the conflict between two enormous companies, one of which is managed in large part by the people who invented Java but don't want to pay for it, and the other which owns Java and wants to cash in.

 

I'm unhappy with RIM for their decision, but I'm incensed at the evil corporations I think are really the cause of the decision.

 

And just because I think Java is dead (for RIM at least that's true) doesn't mean I don't mourn its passing. Life goes on. If I worried about stuff like that I'd still be writing PL/1, APL and assembly language!

Please use plain text.
Developer
silver20
Posts: 455
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
My Device: Paper cup

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

If licensing were the issue, they could just come out and say that, and the pressure and odium would be on Oracle, not RIM.

But they have not said licensing or legal considerations are the issue.

They have clearly said the issue is that in their considered expert opinion, the old BlackBerry app API sucks spoiled berry juice so badly that it urgently needs to be buried before it turns users off to the shiny new platform.

If I'm not legally allowed to sell someone a car, I'll say that's the reason; I won't tell them the car is no good.
Please use plain text.