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Developer
ted_hulick
Posts: 229
Registered: ‎11-21-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

Guys,

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am constantly either hitting roadblocks or "coding

around" various BB API limitations...

In looking at other comments, it appears I am not alone...

I would strongly recommend that you all take the time to go post your comments to the Suggestion/Management forum in hopes that the BB PM's will take some of this seriously.

I posted a list (off top of my head) of API limitations I find frustrating...and encourage you all to to post your list as well:

* API to do a hard reset

* Automatic install of applications with permissions (instead of asking)

* Code Group Modules that can pass inheritance to other modules in the group

* JAD property reading for ALL install types (not just OTA - hard to test AppWorld stuff)

* JTable like UI Field component

* Automatic re-install of an app without having to reboot/reinstall

* HomeScreen access - to put OUR apps on the HomeScreen - the response that this is controlled by the theme is really lame...it should be a core contract that all themes give access to Home Screen

* API to move applications between folders

* Ability to rename modules

* Ability to do "message chains" for all message types

* Access to System level flash

* Access to local resource files as a FileConnection

* Better GPS apis

Developer
DAquilina
Posts: 587
Registered: ‎01-19-2010
My Device: BOLD 9700 OS5.0.0.x on Rogers Canada
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

I understand where you're coming from, but there are a lot of good reasons for a number of hte above restrictions. Forcing applications to be installed in the downloads folder, and restricting hte ability to dynamically move those applications, is a device-side security measure to prevent malware. If these measures were not in place, a malicious developer could theoretically load a virus/spyware app to some obscure folder somwhere on the device so that the user wouldn't be able to get rid of it without a lot of effort. Furthermore, a third-party application that is able to move applications between folders could disrupt a user's organization or randomly jump between folders so that the user can't delete it without nuking the device. Similar issues arrive with renaming modules, etc. That said, there are some interesting inclusions on your list. I like hte idea of a JTable field, though this may be difficult to implement on a mobile device for efficiency reasons. A hard reset API would be useful, but again I think for security reasons it's better to leave this to the user's discretion, as an application could be loaded which does nothing but run on startup and reset the device, making it again necessary to nuke the device. On a side note, I've found the Location API to be quite useful. What exactly are your issues with it?

 

~Dom

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
chown -R us ./base
~J!NX
Developer
Adama
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎01-27-2010
My Device: Bold 9000

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

 


ted_hulick wrote:

* Automatic install of applications with permissions (instead of asking)


 

 

That would be a huge security flaw.  The user can give the application permissions so that it doesn't ask every time so I don't know what the problem would be.

 

 


ted_hulick wrote:

* Code Group Modules that can pass inheritance to other modules in the group


 

 

What do you mean by this?

 

 


ted_hulick wrote:

* JTable like UI Field component


 

 

I know in OS 5 there's GridFieldManager.  Is that sort of what you're looking for?

 

 

 

Developer
ted_hulick
Posts: 229
Registered: ‎11-21-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

The security comment is a comment I've been hearing all along..

 

Same argument can be made for Windows and Linux OS...why should the phone be

any different...

 

The user should have the right to install an app and give it "root" or "administrator" like privileges...and once given, that app has the right to move folders, etc...unchecked.  If the user or corporation does not want this - then they simply deny that application access.  But it should be the owner of the phone's right to choose this.

 

Locking down the OS takes that right away from the owner of the phone.  There are some who would argue - "we know what is best for the user", well - I think if the BB throws up a significant warning such as "WARNING! Granting this application system rights could result in blah blah" - then this let's the BB people off the hook, and the user has been warned.

 

Now - with that said, surely BB should in conjunction put in a "safe boot" option that allows a user to remove an app that is system and autostart...just in case something does happen.

 

As for the GPS...the Android/iPhone automatically "slides" the coordinates in an order  of cell and satellites...I've tried to set accuracy to miles, etc. - does not matter the BB GPS won't give first fix in under 30 seconds (my best) no matter what I set.   Event BB Maps is like this...if you look at iPhone or Android - it'll come up and constantly move positions as it get's more of a fix...the API works same way...

 

Anyway - the BB folks have already given me the "security speech" as to why these APIs are not there...

Developer
DAquilina
Posts: 587
Registered: ‎01-19-2010
My Device: BOLD 9700 OS5.0.0.x on Rogers Canada
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

You seem to be underestimating the ignorance of the general public. I guarantee that a few weeks after these changes the forums would be flooded with "ZOMG MY PHONE SPLODED" threads posted by people who downloaded malicious software and offhandedly assigned administrative priveleges to it. You can count on two things:

 

a) If there's a way to exploit people, slightly more evil people will do their best to make it happen

b) Most people don't know how to avoid being exploited until it's too late (Wizard's First Rule?)

 

You'll get the security speech every time because it's the right speech to make. Making things marginally more convenient for programmers would make things significantly more difficult for the unsuspecting public.

 

~Dom

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
chown -R us ./base
~J!NX
Developer
Adama
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎01-27-2010
My Device: Bold 9000

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

 


ted_hulick wrote:

The security comment is a comment I've been hearing all along..

 

Same argument can be made for Windows and Linux OS...why should the phone be

any different...

 

The user should have the right to install an app and give it "root" or "administrator" like privileges...and once given, that app has the right to move folders, etc...unchecked.  If the user or corporation does not want this - then they simply deny that application access.  But it should be the owner of the phone's right to choose this.

 


 

Okay, but in your original post you said that you wanted to be able to install applications without asking for permissions.  I understand that there are some things that you would want root access to give you that currently aren't possible but I don't see how asking for root priviledges is fundamentally different from asking for permissions.  I'm probably misunderstanding you so could you explain to me why you think applications should ask for root priviledge but should automatically be granted permissions? 

 

Developer
ted_hulick
Posts: 229
Registered: ‎11-21-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

 

As to the comment about how the phone users will "brick their phones" - well, these are the same people who have PC's at home and have full control over them.  As long as they backup their phones, if they screw up - they can reset the phones...won't be fun - but I am a firm believer in people taking responsibility for their actions, and that withholding functionality simply because they may shoot themselves in the foot is wrong.   As long as they have been warned - then I think it's up to them.

So, we will agree to disagree - RIM sides with you on this, and my argument is "a vapor in the wind".

 

As for the comment about permissions.  What I meant is something similar to how Linux works with groups.   If I install an app, and ask for and is granted permissions.  Then if I in turn install another app in my same Code Module Group - it would be granted permissions as well, versus having to ask for them.  Today, if you do a .cod install using createNewModule()...those installed cods have to ask for permissions all over again...which the original app never had to ask as it was installed OTA and had the permissions (only asking if trusted).

 

The security argument is one of those "religious" arguments in s/w development.  One an argue that Microsoft is an example of a company who gave too much and paid the price...but one can also argue that Linux has been a relatively secure OS even with root access. 

Developer
Adama
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎01-27-2010
My Device: Bold 9000

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

 


ted_hulick wrote:

 

As for the comment about permissions.  What I meant is something similar to how Linux works with groups.   If I install an app, and ask for and is granted permissions.  Then if I in turn install another app in my same Code Module Group - it would be granted permissions as well, versus having to ask for them.  Today, if you do a .cod install using createNewModule()...those installed cods have to ask for permissions all over again...which the original app never had to ask as it was installed OTA and had the permissions (only asking if trusted).


 

Okay, I see what you mean.  I agree having that feature would be nice but I really doubt RIM is ever going to provide that capability.

 

Developer
ted_hulick
Posts: 229
Registered: ‎11-21-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

Yea...

 

Considering I STILL have a simulator I gotta kill with task manager as the close button (64 bit/Win 7)....I'm not holding my breath I would ever see it...

 

But, I think RIM will be under pressure from competitors to "open" the OS more to allow for more management features far outside of BES...it won't be developers, it'll be corp customers...

 

ITMT - I just try to code around stuff...like everyone else...

Developer
rcmaniac25
Posts: 1,805
Registered: ‎04-28-2009
My Device: Z10 (STL100-4)-10.2.1.3253, Z10 (STL100-3)-10.3.1.997 Dev OS, Z30 (STA100-5)-10.3.1.997 Dev OS, Passport (SQW100-1)-10.3.0.1418, PlayBook (16GB)-2.1.0.1917

Re: Encourage you all to post in the BB Management/Comment/Suggestion Forum...

[ Edited ]

On the Simulator on WIn 7/64 bit. I noticed (as I expect others have as well) that if you hit the Disconnect button (in the Debug workspace, looks like a red 'Z') it will close the simulator without any fuss.

 

What I would like to see is the ability to write some real native apps, I don't care if I would have to send the source code and detailed documentation to RIM and they send back the compiled COD, I would love to get access to some of the low level device APIs. This fits in with the "open" OS idea yet because you would send the source code to RIM, the security aspect is covered as well.

 

I am interested in what the next "big" update that will come out later this year will contain. I know they said the GUI Builder, payment API, etc. but what else? I forget if it was for this or not, but they said the WebKit would come out later this year. They will probably need to do a system update (don't think they can update just the Browser but you never know) for the browser and unless they allow shared libraries (another want) they will need to implement the payment API and any other APIs that they will release.

 

Well on suggestions:

http://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/Product-Management-The/JSR-support/td-p/381123

http://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/Product-Management-The/Toolbar-and-Banner-support/td-p/376136

 

OK, you wanted suggestions, I gave you my suggestions.

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