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New Contributor
vitop
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-27-2012
My Device: nfc

NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

Hi

 

1/ Is it possible to access a secure element (from an external reader) as if it was a Mifare card?  Actually, Is it possible that the secure element behaves like a Mifare card and not a Java Card?

 

2/ Supposing that I have done everything right with RIM or a carrier and that I have an cardlet located in a secure element (whatever UICC or eSe ), is it possible to access the cardlet (from an external reader) even if the phone (Bold 9900) is powerred off?

 

Thx!!

Vitop

 

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mwoolley
Posts: 571
Registered: ‎06-25-2010
My Device: Z10

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

Mifare is a brand rather than a specific card so it's worth being as specific as you can. Mifare Ultralight is quite different to Mifare Classic for example.

 

Technically, you *may* be able to emulate a Mifare classic in either the embedded SE or the UICC SE. You'd need approval from RIM in the first instance or the carrier in the second.

 

Yes, it's technically possible that the secure element will still function when the device is powered off.

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New Contributor
vitop
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-27-2012
My Device: nfc

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

Thanks M Woolley

 

And Sorry to have been approximative about the Mifare cards but I thought about the classic 4K one :smileyhappy:

 

I have a BB9900, an external card reader (ACR122U) and I would like to develop a basic application  to access the UICC SE or embedded SE (emulating a Mifare classic or a JavaCard) even if the phone is off. How can I test this development case before asking approval? Is it possible ?

 

And what are the procedures to follow to have approval from RIM or from a carrier (I guess it s depend on the carrier)??

 

BR,

Vitop

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mwoolley
Posts: 571
Registered: ‎06-25-2010
My Device: Z10

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

Unfortunately it's not really possible to test the idea without going through the full approval process. You'd have to talk to your carrier partner about their processes. To work with RIM's eSE you will need to provide some information and this will be used to assess the business case in working with you. You won't be given access just so you can experiment and learn I'm afraid. If you have a serious product or project you wish to pursue, drop me a private message and I'll advise further. If you're not sure whether to work with UICC or eSE yet though, I'd suggest you have some more thinking to do regarding your proposition before seeking that approval. Hope that helps.
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New Contributor
vitop
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-27-2012
My Device: nfc

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

Yes your help is very useful !!

 

I am indeed not sure whether to work with UICC or RIM's eSE.

 

If I want to work with RIM's eSE, I still have some questions:

 

First example:
Supposing that my cardlet is installed of 1000 of your RIM's eSE and that I have an update to do, how the update is done  for all devices in one time? And who deal with it?

 

Second example:
Supposing that one of your phone (having my NFC service on your RIM's eSE)  is changing of end user, how and who updates the peronnal information of the end user of the cardlet?

 

More Generally how and who will deal with the life cycle of my NFC service?

 

Thanks

Vitop

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mwoolley
Posts: 571
Registered: ‎06-25-2010
My Device: Z10

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

Good questions and potentially long answer :-)

 

But the short version is that there's a role called TSM (Trusted Services Manager) which forms part of the NFC "eco system" and the TSM is key to these issues being dealt with.

 

You can search on line for more information on what a TSM is.

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New Contributor
vitop
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-27-2012
My Device: nfc

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

[ Edited ]

Yes I know...TSM is a looong story :smileyhappy:

 

I have read some GlobalPlatform specs about TSM and differents actors roles but I think I don't need all these actors for my project.

 

As I explained you in previous messages, here are my main constraints:

 

- To have a dedicated secured memory zone (not dedicated to the payment) in each of your RIM's eSE.
- To have a BB application which is the only one to can access this dedicated secured memory zone and to store data in it.
- That this dedicated secured memory zone could be accessible (in a secured way) with external NFC reader even if the phone is powerred off.

 

I think they are feasible without TSM or MNO (mobile network operators). Please tell me what do you think?

 

 

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mwoolley
Posts: 571
Registered: ‎06-25-2010
My Device: Z10

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

Hi, yes I think I agree. I only mentioned TSM because of your questions about getting the application/applet onto the SE in the first place and of course handling upgrades.

 

I suspect your requirements can be met but this would need to be looked to more closely and before that can happen you need to apply for access so that your business case and technical requirements can be assessed.

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Feel free to press the like button on the right side if you liked my attempts to help :-)
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New Contributor
vitop
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎03-27-2012
My Device: nfc

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

Ok great !

 

And what is the process to apply for access?

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mwoolley
Posts: 571
Registered: ‎06-25-2010
My Device: Z10

Re: NFC - Secure element behavior and Card emulation mode while phone is powerred off ? ?

[ Edited ]

We'll have a proper form available for this kind of thing soon I hope but in the meantime just send me a private message using the forum facilities right here and I'll pass the request on. The details we need are as follows:

 

Name:

Company Name:

Company Website:

Email Address:

Phone Number:

Description of Application(s) Being Developed:

Technology Type (e.g. ISO 14443 A/B, ISO 15693, ISO 18092, MiFare Classic, MiFare Plus, MiFare DESFire, iClass, Calypso, FeliCa)

Secure Element Access Required (Yes/No, UICC or embedded secure element):

Business/ Distribution Model:

Geographic Region Targeted:

Are you currently working with any Carriers/Operators?  If so, which one(s)?

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Feel free to press the like button on the right side if you liked my attempts to help :-)
And please mark posts as solved if you think I found the solution or set you on its path. Thanks!
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