Welcome!

Welcome to the official BlackBerry Support Community Forums.

This is your resource to discuss support topics with your peers, and learn from each other.

inside custom component

Java Development

Reply
Developer
inkhaton
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎12-26-2009
My Device: Not Specified

is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

I have been working with blackberry now for a few months and it seems like there is many more headaches with the development of software for the blackberry than I have seen on other platforms.

 

So far it seems that:

 

The eclipse update site is broken.

The simulators are flaky at best, never really clean an applicaiton and don't load apps consistently.

I often have to restart eclipse or sometimes my computer to get the simulators to start from eclipse repeatedly without startup errors or just hanging.

The alx and jad versions of loading apps work completely differently and store versions of the app in 2 files, and the apploader and the device can show differnt verison.

It is almost impossible to reinstall an app even a new verison, without formatting the device sometimes.

The signature keys are annoying and work unpredictably.

The documentation is incosistend and often incorrect often misleading about actual OS feature compativility like SQLlite (works on system  memory only on 3 devices - all others need an sd card)

and of course,..

 

it takes the simulators FOREVER to start.

 

I was wondering maybe if these issues prevent anyone else from efficiently writing code. It seems 95% of my time is spent starting the simulators, restarting my computer or tracking some bug only to realize that the one particular model I am testing on doesn't support the OS feature like the documentation says.

 

I would love to find out that in all these situations I am doing something wrong and find another way but rim support never responds to my questions.

 

For example, which devices support SQLite databases in device (not SD card) memory. There are 3 pages on the site. 2 say all devices with OS 5. The java documentation says only BOLD and STORM

 

my experience says only STORM And only BOLD 9000 but not BOLD 9700.

IS there a clear answer?

 

 

Please use plain text.
Developer
JCarty
Posts: 1,055
Registered: ‎01-25-2009
My Device: BlackBerry Bold 9650/BlackBerry Torch 9800

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

I'll try to answer most of your concerns. Mind you, most of the development tools are so much better now than they used to be.

 

The eclipse update site is broken.

 

70% of the time I cannot get this working so it is a big frustration for me too. It's either down or going WAY too slow when I have a broadband connection that I should be able to take advantage of. I understand bandwidth conservation but if it fails and has to be started over and over, you're not really saving bandwith.

 

The simulators are flaky at best, never really clean an applicaiton and don't load apps consistently.

 

This is another issue but the simulators are pretty sensitive and they are working on improvements and it has gotten better over the past year.

 

I often have to restart eclipse or sometimes my computer to get the simulators to start from eclipse repeatedly without startup errors or just hanging.

 

You shouldn't have this many issues with it unless you're running in an unsupported OS (any 64-bit OS).

 

The alx and jad versions of loading apps work completely differently and store versions of the app in 2 files, and the apploader and the device can show differnt verison.

 

By nature they are different but they're not that far off from each other. Version (numbers and cods) should be exactly the same once loaded to a device.

 

It is almost impossible to reinstall an app even a new verison, without formatting the device sometimes.

 

Deleting the application from the device should remove it as if it were a real device. Are you loading your apps outside of the development environment (opening the simulator on it's own and loading)?

 

The signature keys are annoying and work unpredictably.

 

The keys are only necessary when you have to deploy to an actual device. As long as you sign your files before putting them on a real device, there should be no hassle afterwards. The new version of Eclipse Plugin actually gives an option to auto-sign.

 

The documentation is incosistend and often incorrect often misleading about actual OS feature compativility like SQLlite (works on system  memory only on 3 devices - all others need an sd card)

 

The documentation is pretty spot on for most things and lacking in other places but it is pretty accurate and they are working on a new place (a Resource Center of sorts) to better structure the documentation and FAQs.


it takes the simulators FOREVER to start.

 

At least its shorter than the amount of time it takes a real device to boot but it is a BIG problem. It is better in the new Eclipse plugin and JDE 5.0 though. If you use the new hot-swap feature for the simulators, you don't have to restart the simulator everytime you want to test something new.

 

A lot of times this has slowed me down but once it's set up properly, it works great. However, setting everything up so that it works every single time is the hardest part.

 

As far as your question about SQLite, devices having OS 5.0 or later support SQLite. The preferred storage location is an SD Card. HOWEVER, devices having internal memory (Storm, Storm2 and I think Bold 9000 have 1GB of internal storage for files. The Bold 9700 does not have internal memory) can use their internal storage to store the database.

 

I don't think it's possible to store it on device memory (which is 32 MB, 64 MB, 128 MB, 256MB, etc).

Jerome Carty - Follow jcarty on Twitter@jcarty | #webworks-dev / #BlackberryDev on irc.freenode.net | My Apps
Click "Accept as Solution" if post solved your original issue.. Give like/thumbs up if you feel post is helpful
Please use plain text.
Developer
rcmaniac25
Posts: 1,804
Registered: ‎04-28-2009
My Device: Z10 (STL100-4)-10.2.1.3253, Z10 (STL100-3)-10.3.1.634 Dev OS, Z30 (STA100-5)-10.3.1.634 Dev OS, Passport (SQW100-1)-10.3.0.1154, PlayBook (16GB)-2.1.0.1917

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

I'll respond to the questions that I had a different experience with. Many of them were resolved with a new computer (so I'll sound like a broken record).

 

The eclipse update site is broken.

I've actually never had issues unless I mistyped the URL.

 

The simulators are flaky at best, never really clean an application and don't load apps consistently.

I had some issues a while ago but recently got a new, much more powerful yet still under $1000 computer, which 100% eliminated those problems. Runs WIndows 7, 64bit. In other words, I don't know if that is the computer or the simulator. For me it was the computer.

 

I often have to restart eclipse or sometimes my computer to get the simulators to start from eclipse repeatedly without startup errors or just hanging.

As JCarty said, again once with the new computer this issue (which happened only occasionally) disappeared.

 

The signature keys are annoying and work unpredictably.

What exactly do they do that makes them unpredictable? I tell my apps to sign, put in the password and everything is good after that.

 

The documentation is inconsistent and often incorrect often misleading about actual OS feature compatibility like SQLlite...

I agree to a point, as JCarty pointed out most is perfect but I have tried to reduce the amount of code I put in and use built in classes as well and once you stray away from the most common APIs you will find both some interesting APIs and some missing documentation. For example on the new 5.0 APIs when did the normal J2SE File classes get added? (Take a look at java.io) they don't exist in the Component Packs but they are in the documentation, how do you do an oops like that?

 

it takes the simulators FOREVER to start.

My favorite part to this new computer:

Laptop (main computer): 5-7min boot

Desktop (old): 3-5min boot

Desktop (new): 20-30sec

Throw in Hot-Swap (which takes about 5sec) and it's great.

---Spends time in #blackberrydev on freenode (IRC)----
Three simple rules:
1. Please use the search bar before making new posts.
2. "Like" posts that you find helpful.
3. If a solution has been found for your post, mark it as solved.
--I code too much. Well, too bad.
Please use plain text.
Developer
DAquilina
Posts: 587
Registered: ‎01-19-2010
My Device: BOLD 9700 OS5.0.0.x on Rogers Canada
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

20-30 seconds? What are your specs? I haven't tried on my home computer yet, but at work it takes a good 5-10 minutes for the simulators to emerge from their seemingly eternal slumber in the darkest corners of memory. I can attest to the OP's mention of spending 95% of his development time waiting for the simulators to load.

 

Anyway, compared to the actual devices, the desktop software that RIM puts out is bulky and unreliable, but it seems they're trying quite hard to correct these issues. There have been huge improvements even in the short time that I've been developing. Hopefully it'll keep getting better.

 

~Dom

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
chown -R us ./base
~J!NX
Please use plain text.
Developer
rcmaniac25
Posts: 1,804
Registered: ‎04-28-2009
My Device: Z10 (STL100-4)-10.2.1.3253, Z10 (STL100-3)-10.3.1.634 Dev OS, Z30 (STA100-5)-10.3.1.634 Dev OS, Passport (SQW100-1)-10.3.0.1154, PlayBook (16GB)-2.1.0.1917

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300

8GB DDR2

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit

 

Nothing else should really effect anything

I love the speed, when I got that computer I literally didn't need hot-swap but that makes it better anyway.

---Spends time in #blackberrydev on freenode (IRC)----
Three simple rules:
1. Please use the search bar before making new posts.
2. "Like" posts that you find helpful.
3. If a solution has been found for your post, mark it as solved.
--I code too much. Well, too bad.
Please use plain text.
Developer
Comitic
Posts: 68
Registered: ‎02-05-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

No, it's not just you.

 

Here's rather popular blog post on the subj.

 

http://www.inteism.com/2009/04/android-development-vs-blackberry-development/

Please use plain text.
Developer
rcmaniac25
Posts: 1,804
Registered: ‎04-28-2009
My Device: Z10 (STL100-4)-10.2.1.3253, Z10 (STL100-3)-10.3.1.634 Dev OS, Z30 (STA100-5)-10.3.1.634 Dev OS, Passport (SQW100-1)-10.3.0.1154, PlayBook (16GB)-2.1.0.1917

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

Ok, I did a low estimate (hence the "time-time" format). The current time is 44sec from clicking the debug button to the BlackBerry simulator being usable. Also I start MDS as well with the simulator.

---Spends time in #blackberrydev on freenode (IRC)----
Three simple rules:
1. Please use the search bar before making new posts.
2. "Like" posts that you find helpful.
3. If a solution has been found for your post, mark it as solved.
--I code too much. Well, too bad.
Please use plain text.
Developer
dnepr
Posts: 723
Registered: ‎03-12-2009
My Device: Playbook

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

Takes about 40-80 seconds for simulator to boot on my machine.   Slow enough to be annoying.

Please use plain text.
Developer
RexDoug
Posts: 4,764
Registered: ‎07-21-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

I believe that the slow-loading simulator is a nefarious plot on the part of RIM to give developers more time to browse this forum and assist less fortunate developers. :smileyhappy:

 

I have to agree that the issue *does* react favorably to a multi-core system and lots of memory.

 

 

 

Please use plain text.
Developer
dmglakewood
Posts: 296
Registered: ‎12-07-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

Programming for the Palm Pre is years ahead of coding for the blackberry. I can literally put together an appliction in 1/10 the time it takes me to do it on the Blackberry.

 

UI items are just a pain to work with. Not only that but you have to fire up the slow loading simulator just to see simple changes. Palm on the other had has an online interface that lets you drag and drop the ui onto the phone and in seconds you can make a fully functioning UI without typing 1 line of code.

 

Also while coding on the palm pre you can simply send the app to your device and instnantly it will complie the app and send it to your phone and load it up. I can literally make a change to the source code and have it running on my actual device faster then it takes for the BB simulator to load up.

 

I love my BB but sometimes I really hate coding apps for it. I also hate that there are so many undocumented api's. I find myself going to the javadocs first and if that's no help then I start to google around. Usually I find an undocumented API that works perfectly. It would have saved me a lot of time if it was just in the javadocs to begin with.

Please use plain text.