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New Developer
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎11-12-2008
My Device: Bold 9800 or Storm 3 whichever hits Verizon first.
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

without typing 1 line of code.

 

Yeah that can be a great environment to design (not develop) in but ONLY once you know how to develop without the WYSIWYG. I had a loud discussion with a .Net developer over the idea of developing and he was saying how you dont need to know how to do all the low level work because the IDE does it for you. Yeah true that, but what are you to do if you dont have a super IDE to do things for you. Lets say your stuck with notepad. Well thats when its great to know how to be a developer and not a designer.

 

Our project had gone JAVA and not .Net man he was so flustered. "Why do I have to do all this work, how do I connect to a database?" Was a bit funny throwing it back at him and pointing out our earlier conversation over how its important to know how to code prior to taking the shortcuts. After all once you show someone the short cut theyre thinking why should I bother learning to do it the hard way.

Thank you all for your support
black_berry
Developer
Posts: 1,805
Registered: ‎04-28-2009
My Device: Z10 (STL100-4)-10.2.1.3253, Z10 (STL100-3)-10.3.1.2576, Z30 (STA100-5)-10.3.1.2582, Passport (SQW100-1)-10.3.1.2576, PlayBook (16GB)-2.1.0.1917
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

Agree fully, I'm normally a .NET dev (if I'm not coding for BlackBerry I'm coding for .NET) but I try to squeeze as much out of everything I code so I will actually edit a GUI element in .NET by hand sometimes to get out something that I would otherwise not be able to do.

 

If there is anything I wish RIM would release it's reflection. I know they have it because when I updated my BlackBerry a little cod file flew by with the name "net_rim_reflect". That would make my life 10 times easier, what many can do with 10+ lines of code and manual implementation, I can do with 1 line of reflection. Use it all the time for dynamic, self-editing and optimizing programs in .NET. Wait this isn't a API request thread.

 

Back to the topic at hand, RIM will be releasing a WYSIWYG tool soon (I think).

---Spends time in #blackberrydev on freenode (IRC)----
Three simple rules:
1. Please use the search bar before making new posts.
2. "Like" posts that you find helpful.
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--I code too much. Well, too bad.
Developer
Posts: 68
Registered: ‎02-05-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

RexDough is right - it takes about 15-20 seconds to boot Bold (!)  simulator in debug (!) mode on i-5 (2.6) machine with 4GB RAM (running Win7 64, btw).

 

And my machine is not the top of the line in terms of hard drive and memory and mobo. It's a so so, but pretty recent machine.

Developer
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎12-26-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

[ Edited ]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

 

I can appreciate that the tools have improved. In fact, in the time from when I started just half a year ago, the changes have been dramatic but I am often chasing "ghost bugs" that seem to be problems in my app but are really some strange simulator issue.

 I don't have a 64 Bit OS, from other posters it seems you need a server from Pixar to get the simulator started in less than 5 minutes but honestly I did not know about the hot swap option. Maybe I will try that.

 

I just expected more of a stable environment from a company that has produced phone apps for longer than iPhone and Android put together.

 

Developer
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎12-26-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

I would actually pay for 40-80 seconds. It takes me minutes. And I have  a dual core with 3 GB of ram on win 7.

Developer
Posts: 498
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

I've found the most recent update to eclipse is pretty good. And since downloading the 1.1 beta the work process has become less tiresome. Plus update works like a charm on the recently released version.

 

The simulator still takes a while on my 64 bit quad core, but it's tolerable. Haven't got hot swap to work but then the entire IDE isn't supposed to work on 64 bit so I'm not complaining. I just change the way I work to code more before debugging.

 

Best advice is to buy the biggest and best machine you can afford.

 

The biggest pain for me is deploying. I've recently moved to using libraries, which has simplified the code somewhat, but I still have to manually edit jad files for 2 apps and 5 builds per app.

 

But I'd be careful what you wish for. If it was simple and easy there'd be 1,000,000 apps and noone would be making any cash. Having a relatively complex development process and api set slows down the development process, probably means we have tighter code (since you have to be a genius to start with), means our apps are significantly more integrated than most smartphone apps, and keeps the riff raff away from the platform. :smileyhappy:

 

 

Developer
Posts: 587
Registered: ‎01-19-2010
My Device: BOLD 9700 OS5.0.0.x on Rogers Canada
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?


inkhaton wrote:

Thanks for the detailed reply.

 

I can appreciate that the tools have improved. In fact, in the time from when I started just half a year ago, the changes have been dramatic but I am often chasing "ghost bugs" that seem to be problems in my app but are really some strange simulator issue.

 I don't have a 64 Bit OS, from other posters it seems you need a server from Pixar to get the simulator started in less than 5 minutes but honestly I did not know about the hot swap option. Maybe I will try that.

 

I just expected more of a stable environment from a company that has produced phone apps for longer than iPhone and Android put together.

 


I was having that problem in the beginning, right when I started developing. Samples would work for an hour, and then never work again. The problem was determining when the simulator stopped being the problem, and the code started. More than once I found myself chasing a ghost bug that I thought was the simulator, but it turned out I just didn't fully understand what I was doing.

 

 


 

 

 


br14 wrote:

I've found the most recent update to eclipse is pretty good. And since downloading the 1.1 beta the work process has become less tiresome. Plus update works like a charm on the recently released version.

 

The simulator still takes a while on my 64 bit quad core, but it's tolerable. Haven't got hot swap to work but then the entire IDE isn't supposed to work on 64 bit so I'm not complaining. I just change the way I work to code more before debugging.

 

Best advice is to buy the biggest and best machine you can afford.

 

The biggest pain for me is deploying. I've recently moved to using libraries, which has simplified the code somewhat, but I still have to manually edit jad files for 2 apps and 5 builds per app.

 

But I'd be careful what you wish for. If it was simple and easy there'd be 1,000,000 apps and noone would be making any cash. Having a relatively complex development process and api set slows down the development process, probably means we have tighter code (since you have to be a genius to start with), means our apps are significantly more integrated than most smartphone apps, and keeps the riff raff away from the platform. :smileyhappy:

 


You don't think that comes off at least a bit elitist? :smileytongue: That said, I understand where you're coming from, but more developers means a tighter community and a better variety. In terms of development we may get left a bit behind, but the device itself benefits, and that's in everyone's best interest. If you're a strong programmer then your application will distinguish itself through technical merit, and the "riff raff" will get less exposure, as they put less effort into their products and will undoubtedly get weak reviews.

 

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chown -R us ./base
~J!NX
New Developer
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎11-12-2008
My Device: Bold 9800 or Storm 3 whichever hits Verizon first.
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

I too am dying so far with the environment. Just got things working last night.

 

Latest Eclipse Gallileo

Latest JDK

Latest JRE

The installable RIM plugin

 

3 week old HP system 6gb RAM

Windows 7 64bit

 

Takes 1-2 minutes for the simulator to popup

Takes an additional 3-4 minutes for the simulator screen to appear.

Simulator 9500 series.

 

Cant get anything done with a wait time like that.

Thank you all for your support
black_berry
Developer
Posts: 587
Registered: ‎01-19-2010
My Device: BOLD 9700 OS5.0.0.x on Rogers Canada
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

Unfortunately you'll get used to that. It's quite the pain sometimes, but on the bright side, you might get the chance to read that novel you've been putting off...

 

On a side note, there's apparently a WYSIWIG (sp?) interface en route from RIM, so building a GUI might be simplified in the near future. Add that to the hot-swapping included with the new JDE/Plugin, and I think RIM is taking monumental steps in the right direction.

 

~Dom

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chown -R us ./base
~J!NX
Developer
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
My Device: Not Specified

Re: is it just me or is the whole Blackberry Development Process / Environment unstable?

[ Edited ]

I have been using the eclipse IDE + JDK 1.1 beta to develop for a couple of months on a 2.5 year old laptop with 2gig ram, and it's been a nightmare.  Launching the simulator takes 5 minutes and on first launch eclipse always times out trying to launch the debugger.  Subsequent launches are quicker but not by much.

 

Upgraded to the new 1.1 gold version of the JDK improved things a little by not requiring the IDE to relaunch but it still took several minutes to start a debug session.

 

That was on my work laptop (I have requested a new one).

 

I switched development to my home PC temporarily while I await my new work laptop to arrive.  It has a much better processor and 4gig ram instead of 2 and its a completely different experience.  Launching the simulator still takes a while, not timed it but I would guess a minute or two, but not long enough to cause a timeout.  Once the simulator is running starting a new debug session (using the existing simulator) can take as little as 10 seconds.

 

4gig ram I am sure helps alot, as does the faster processor.

 

In summary.  Get 4gig ram.  A fairly recent processor (mine is a Q6600 running at 3.0GHz - machine is 2 years old) and use the gold version of JDK 1.1