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Developer
georg22
Posts: 247
Registered: ‎11-22-2011
My Device: Blackberry Playbook

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?

[ Edited ]

jheron, the problem is, that  the possibility of using a combination of QML (which is great) and Javascript to develop apps automatically attracts developer with no c++ background.

But ok, maybe i was wrong and Cacades is only usable for the real c++ guys and not for people like me.

Developer
peter9477
Posts: 6,473
Registered: ‎12-08-2010
My Device: PlayBook, Z10

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?

It should absolutely be possible to develop some fairly significant apps using only QML, and resorting only to minimal C++. Possibly even C++ "canned" snippets and recipes that you don't have to understand fully. That shouldn't be a problem.

Some of us have a bit of a critical view of doing "too much" in the QML layer, but that's largely personal preference. I have the same feeling about putting too much "business logic" in HTML and Javascript, but that just means I generally try to structure my systems differently, and tend to avoid WebWorks.

People should work to their strengths, but also keep their eyes open for signs that they're building convoluted solutions. Sometimes it's possible to improve the structure of a system by decoupling things, keeping to a strict separation of UI and back-end logic, but insisting on that (especially in others' apps) isn't very pragmatic in some cases.

So basically use what works for you, but keep an open mind for ways to improve. The beauty of Qt/QML is that we have options.

Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
BlackBerry Development Advisor
MSohm
Posts: 14,753
Registered: ‎07-09-2008
My Device: BlackBerry Passport

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?

Really appreciate everyone's feedback here!  I just wanted to chime in and let you know we've read through these and are looking into this.

Mark Sohm
BlackBerry Development Advisor

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Developer
ekke
Posts: 1,566
Registered: ‎04-08-2010
My Device: Z10 (red Limited Edition), Q10, Z30
My Carrier: Telekom.de, O2, Vodafone

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?


peter9477 wrote:
...

So basically use what works for you, but keep an open mind for ways to improve. The beauty of Qt/QML is that we have options.

and the beauty of Qt/QML is that you can separate different parts of your application into different QML files,

so you can develop a modular system .... and as Peter hansen wrote: it's always a good idea to decouple Business Logic  from UI

 

and I think that - the more people are developing BB10 / Cascades APPs the more libraries you'll found at GitHub and you can plug them easy together without digging deep into C++

 

per ex. I attended the Session 'Intelligent Apps' at BB10Jam, where you get easy access to Sensors, Services...

 

ekke

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ekke (independent software architect, rosenheim, germany)

BlackBerry Elite Developer
BlackBerry Platinum Enterprise Partner
International Development Mobile Apps BlackBerry 10 Cascades
Cascades - Workshops / Trainings / Bootcamps

blog: http://ekkes-corner.org videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/ekkescorner http://vimeo.com/ekkescorner/videos
bb10-development: http://appbus.org Twitter: @ekkescorner
Developer
jheron
Posts: 188
Registered: ‎01-27-2012
My Device: playbook

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?

Well said Peter! I completely agree!

I think I am understanding why all the fuss now, I didn't realize/think about the fact that most of the developers here have been long time bb coders with experience in Java. I guess that would explain why people would rather just use js instead of c++ (a strange idea to me) thinking it is closer to whats familliar or just faster and easier to learn? This also makes it clear why bb is concentrating on momentics more then creator for cascades, all the bb devs are used to using eclipse...

I have never developed for bb until I heard my nokia and android Qt apps would work on the playbook! I come from a different background then most of you bb developers I guess...

If there is a worry that Qt c++ is going to be very difficult and arcane to learn and understand, fear not! I am just a dopey electrician who does this as a hobby, if I can learn Qt, anyone can!

If you can develop with BB Java it will be a pleasure for you to develop with Qt c++ and or qml/js, there really is not much difference from a developers stand point, at least in my opinion. If you can develop then you can develop in any language provided there is documentation.

There is probably a bigger difference in coding styles between BB Java and qml/js then there is between BB Java and Qt c++.

Also dont forget that your applications developed with Qt can be deployed to Android, ios, Nokia's Symbian, all desktop environments etc., etc...

Did I mention how much I enjoy developing with Qt? :smileyvery-happy:

Cheers,

Jon

Developer
jheron
Posts: 188
Registered: ‎01-27-2012
My Device: playbook

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?


ekke wrote:

and the beauty of Qt/QML is that you can separate different parts of your application into different QML files,

so you can develop a modular system .... and as Peter hansen wrote: it's always a good idea to decouple Business Logic  from UI

 

 

ekke


That is the basses of OOP, its part and parcel of c++ as well. Everything is modular.

As an example, I am developing a pdf reader for the playbook with Qt and to do this I am using an open source c++ library built for reading and manipulating PDF files and wrapping it in my own ui for the playbook. All the hard work of manipulating, rendering, annotating, etc of PDF's has already been done for me in the open source library that anyone can use...

Cheers,

Jon

Developer
ekke
Posts: 1,566
Registered: ‎04-08-2010
My Device: Z10 (red Limited Edition), Q10, Z30
My Carrier: Telekom.de, O2, Vodafone

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?


jheron wrote:..

I have never developed for bb until I heard my nokia and android Qt apps would work on the playbook! I come from a different background then most of you bb developers I guess.......

Did I mention how much I enjoy developing with Qt? :smileyvery-happy:

Cheers,

Jon


If you want to move your QT APPs to BB10 then you have to use the QT Port avaiable as OpenSource at GitHub.

all infos about these thing also in OpenBBNew

 

Cascades only uses QtCore as Framework and NOT Qt UI

the Cascades API is different ! it's a complete new Framework

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ekke (independent software architect, rosenheim, germany)

BlackBerry Elite Developer
BlackBerry Platinum Enterprise Partner
International Development Mobile Apps BlackBerry 10 Cascades
Cascades - Workshops / Trainings / Bootcamps

blog: http://ekkes-corner.org videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/ekkescorner http://vimeo.com/ekkescorner/videos
bb10-development: http://appbus.org Twitter: @ekkescorner
Developer
jheron
Posts: 188
Registered: ‎01-27-2012
My Device: playbook

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?


ekke wrote:

If you want to move your QT APPs to BB10 then you have to use the QT Port avaiable as OpenSource at GitHub.

all infos about these thing also in OpenBBNew

Hi Ekke,

Actually that port is long outdated, the QNX port is now part of the mainstream Qt4.8 and I believe Qt5 as well so there is no need for that first bbQNX port on github anymore and it should not be used. Now you can just download the latest Qt 4 libs from git or Nokia and build them for QNX and your off to the races.

Cascades only uses QtCore as Framework and NOT Qt UI

the Cascades API is different ! it's a complete new Framework

The framework is the same, its QtCore. Cascades offers a different QtGUI option, basically it is just a set of custom qml components that include some bb10 specific API's for convenience and performance on the bb10 version of the QNX Neutrino RTOS platform. Cascades however is not necessary for bb10 development and standard Qt or qml apps will work just as well with bb10 as they do on any other Qt supported platform. At least, that's the way I understand it...


Best regards,

Jon

 


 

Developer
peter9477
Posts: 6,473
Registered: ‎12-08-2010
My Device: PlayBook, Z10

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?

Jon's right about that (or, at least, I have the same understanding).

I wasn't sure about QtGui being available still, but I just checked the on-device libraries and libQtGui.so.4.8.0 is present (8.2MB file) so it appears it is. I suspect it's not possible to mix and match Cascades and QtGui stuff, but it would seem you can still do "pure" Qt without Cascades, if you don't want to have the native look and feel.

Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
Developer
ekke
Posts: 1,566
Registered: ‎04-08-2010
My Device: Z10 (red Limited Edition), Q10, Z30
My Carrier: Telekom.de, O2, Vodafone

Re: Cascades - do we need an extra Forum ?

perhaps I didn't describe it exactly (poor english ;-)

 

I only mentioned the OpenBBNews so everyone can follow the way RIM did with Qt-Port:

starting in an own repo, then pushing directly into the Qt Main stream

 

--

perhaps my understanding was wrong: I thought, that you have to use different ways to install the whole stuff:

* for pure Qt apps with QtUI use the Open Source Qt port

* for Cascades use the Cascades installer

 

then I got the information, that you couldn't mix Cascades UI with QtUI

 

Cascades uses QtCore and adds own stuff

 

another point I heard: if you're using the Qt Open Source part with QtUi, then your apps are relative large, because each "classic" QtApp then includes many libraries, where Cascades shares same libraries.

But I can be totally wrong - it's all new for me

 

the only thing I know:

I want to use Cascades for my mobile business apps and have to learn much next months ;-)

 

good to hear that some are hear already knowing Qt itself in detail.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ekke (independent software architect, rosenheim, germany)

BlackBerry Elite Developer
BlackBerry Platinum Enterprise Partner
International Development Mobile Apps BlackBerry 10 Cascades
Cascades - Workshops / Trainings / Bootcamps

blog: http://ekkes-corner.org videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/ekkescorner http://vimeo.com/ekkescorner/videos
bb10-development: http://appbus.org Twitter: @ekkescorner