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New Developer
Vilmos
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎02-29-2012
My Device: PlayBook Developer
My Carrier: None

Re: Why is this so difficult?

You can make excuses if you like, but bad tools turn developers away.  It isn't like there aren't more lucrative options out there.  With RIM's current lack of success you would think they would try to woo developers with excellent API documentation and an easy development environment.

 

I'll get my game finished, but I never thought I would look back at porting MAME to PalmOS as a nice easy job.  This thread is for whining and I'm feeling much better now.  I'm actually making progress after two weeks of banging my head against this ridiculous environment.

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New Developer
bigb2009
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎11-25-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Totally agree. This post wasn't really to get help, but to vent about how frustrating it is to start developing for the Playbook.

I don't mind the IDE as much as I am running it on a pretty fast machine, only lag I really see is when closing or terminating a debug session. It's a little slow to debug, but its based on eclipse, and that is slow too.

If I were developing a game, not a problem, your going to roll your own UI anyway, but any business developers are going to fire this up and then see they need to roll their own buttons, listboxes and such? They will go elsewhere, for obvious reasons.
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Developer
jheron
Posts: 188
Registered: ‎01-27-2012
My Device: playbook
My Carrier: ...

Re: Why is this so difficult?

[ Edited ]

Wow! All this bitching and moaning is humorous, you've been spoiled!
I guess its all a matter of perspective... I have found using Qt for pb a pleasure compared to the early days of Qt on Symbian... Thats where I started cutting my Qt programming teeth... Talk about painful...
The bb Qt port is already way ahead of the early symbian port, thanks to Lighthouse and hard work on RIM's part I guess...
If you want easy cheesy than dev for windoze, ios or droid and leave BB10 for the hobbyists.. :smileyvery-happy:


Who said you have to role your own? Whats wrong with the >Symbian components? They work fine for now IMO...

 

Thats my 2 cents...
Cheers,
Jon

 

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Trusted Contributor
bdaemon
Posts: 152
Registered: ‎02-23-2011
My Device: dev alpha playbook 9500 8300
My Carrier: uc

Re: Why is this so difficult?


 

BGmot wrote:

That's why only the smartest survive here -))) lol


:Yes:   so agree.

 

at this time,  NDK is just suitable for Game  Dev. but thanks RIM , they  give a chance  to let me make my own UI, it's funny for me to reconsider the system UI how to work .  maybe ,someday , we can make our "fake OS" on playbook ,"File Manage", "DOS box"  etc.

 

I still install  Delphi 6 in my PC,  which is released about 10 years ago.. i hope the New NDK IDE UI will achieve the same level ,

 

but  i know , IT'S   IMPOSSIBLE,

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Developer
falo
Posts: 97
Registered: ‎05-12-2009
My Device: PlayBook
My Carrier: 3

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I just caught up on the Android Developers Google group this morning and so I have a new plea for RIM. Please please please keep things complex and create new barriers to developers - that might prevent an influx of the sort of idiots you get posting on there with the "durrr I want to do this someone tell me I don't know how to use search lol!!111!1". Seriously, 75% of the questions essentially read as "I have been given an outsourced requirement to deliver. Can someone give me some code I can copy and paste without understanding it please?"
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You can find me (sporadically) writing and developing at http://floor4.co.uk and gaming at http://uk-tf.co.uk
My Apps: Flip!
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New Developer
bigb2009
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎11-25-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: Why is this so difficult?

[ Edited ]

I can't really say that I've been spoiled.  I used to walk to school 10 miles uphill in the snow too.  :smileyhappy:

 

I just think that if RIM really wanted to get developers onboard for this platform they would want to make it easier to hit the ground running, and worry about developing the apps, and less about how to handle making a button.  (I know bad example as a button is easy, but tring to make a scrolling listbox is going to take some time). 

 

 And remember, this platform was released in April of last year, we're going to be going on 1 year now, and still have nothing to show as far as a UI is concerned.  (Unless you want to try and hack up Qt(to get it to work on the simluator), and yes Symbian tools to make it prettier. 

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New Developer
Vilmos
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎02-29-2012
My Device: PlayBook Developer
My Carrier: None

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I'm doing a game, so UI doesn't matter to me, I've done my own.  For me the issue is debugging speed and the sample projects that never seem to work.

 

I've got past the working samples now, just fed up with the debugger.  I am spoiled by Windows, iOS, even PalmOS!  I just hate having a whole game finished, just need to port standard code over and I can't get a hello world type application to accept touch input! :smileyfrustrated:

 

It gets better once you fix the framework bugs, find out where everything is, and get working samples.

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Developer
jheron
Posts: 188
Registered: ‎01-27-2012
My Device: playbook
My Carrier: ...

Re: Why is this so difficult?


bigb2009 wrote:

I can't really say that I've been spoiled.  I used to walk to school 10 miles uphill in the snow too.  :smileyhappy:

 

I just think that if RIM really wanted to get developers onboard for this platform they would want to make it easier to hit the ground running, and worry about developing the apps, and less about how to handle making a button.  (I know bad example as a button is easy, but tring to make a scrolling listbox is going to take some time). 

 

 And remember, this platform was released in April of last year, we're going to be going on 1 year now, and still have nothing to show as far as a UI is concerned.  (Unless you want to try and hack up Qt(to get it to work on the simluator), and yes Symbian tools to make it prettier. 


I guess I don't see the issue with ui creation. I agree the pb emulator is a total waste of time and was a bad decision by RIM, so I don't use it, I use the simulator in the QtSDK on the n900 skin to get the ui looking how I want using the symbian components and then I deploy to the playbook for final testing. I have released 5 pb apps now, all have flickable scrolling lists, combo boxes, buttons, dialogs, etc. I had to make none of these by hand, they are all included in the symbian Qt components addition to creator.

I compiled the components for use on the playbook and posted them here: http://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/Native-SDK-for-BlackBerry-Tablet/QML-symbian-qt-components-fo...

And I have now made a post explaining how to deploy right from creator so there is no need to use the command line either: http://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/Native-SDK-for-BlackBerry-Tablet/How-to-buid-sign-and-deploy-...

I see no need to hack up anything at this point?

Sure its not running as smooth as it could, but that will come in time. As far as I am concerned this is plenty to get started making beautiful UI's with no need to roll your own anything. If QML doesn't suit your fancy you can just use the Qt widget ui designer too, with some styling they look great and the performance can't be matched...

My 2 cents... :smileyhappy:

Cheers,

Jon

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Developer
iravelo
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎06-28-2011
My Device: 9700+PB
My Carrier: sfr

Re: Why is this so difficult?

I come from java dev for BB0S 6 and less.

The IDE for java from RIM and the simulators for recent phones are good.

When I see momentics and the PB sim, 

I feel those two are at a lower level of maturity and quality than the former ones.

Whan I see the QT SDK, i can feel it is mature enough and I agree their nokia simulator can be put to work when not testing on a real device.

What I just regret is that dev for QT seems to be easier when using linux.

MacOsx and Windows are far less seamless platforms.

This is a pitty because windows + macosx are much more current platforms for full time devs.

 

---------<={##}=>---------
I.Ravelo; Renault S.A.S. Corporate BBOS Java Apps Lead Conceptor/Coder; Qt learner
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BlackBerry Development Advisor
tneil
Posts: 3,708
Registered: ‎10-16-2008
My Device: Z10
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Why is this so difficult?

Hi everyone,

 

First off.. thanks for all the feedback both positive and areas where we can improve :smileyhappy:

 

The NDK as it sits today is almost 100% targetted to supporting game vendors port their existing titles to the PlayBook and not necessarily for developers looking to build a new application from scratch with C/C++.

 

Adding Cascades and QT built into the platform on BB10 with all the integrated tooling for WYSIWYG editors, quick previews and integration with Photoshop etc. is designed for those either coming from previous BlackBerry Java development and/or a developer starting from scratch on a new application on the BB10 platform.

 

I know that everyone has been patiently waiting for the release of the Beta Cascades framework and the tooling.  We want to ensure that the quality of the experience is what you expect for the first release of the software.

 

Having our simulators run inside VMWare/VMFusion introduces some complexities that we're continuing to iron out, but it also allows for the use of the simulators on operating systems other than Windows.  The goal is to find the best way to marry these two needs.

Tim Neil
Director, Application Platform & Tools Product Management
Follow me on Twitter
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