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Contributor
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎03-02-2010
My Device: Q10

Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?

I am not the kind of person who rushes out to buy the next new phone, but I was actually looking forward to the Q10.

 

From what I understand now, each model of the phone will only work with a specific carrier.

 

I have been free from contracts for over a decade now and will never accept a contract with those psychopath carriers ever again. Unlocking phones and allowing them to work on multiple networks allowed us to have choices.

 

Now, we are slaves to the one carrier we buy the phone from again? With a penalty of having to buy a new phone to move on?

 

I am baffled I haven't found any raging against this? I can tell you I won't be buying a new Blackberry now. I refuse to be a slave to these arrogant Canadian carriers.

 

Is this something that will change? Do I understand things incorrectly?

 

Would love to hear something on this...

I used to really like Blackberry... now, I hate it/them more than words can describe!
Super Contributor
Posts: 255
Registered: ‎07-01-2013
My Device: Q10
My Carrier: Telus

Re: Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?

[ Edited ]

Some thoughts...

  • this is not just the Q10, locking a phone is common with other manufacturers too. Thankfully unlocking a Blackberry is so easy compared to others that requires a computer. Unlike Blackberry, other manufacturers MAY relock their phones when the user syncs their phone with a computer
  • I love unlocked phones for travel
  • carrier specific phones are discounted, if you want carrier freedom, you can always purchase unlocked phones.  They exist.
  • discount locked phones are subsidized by a carrier, if you don't want the subsidy, again unlocked phones exist at a higher price
  • unlocking a phone for $35 or $50 is still cheaper than paying for a fully unlocked phone.
  • just because you have an unlocked phone does not guarantee it work with ALL carriers, some carriers use different frequencies (eg AWS)
Hall of Famer III
Posts: 57,220
Registered: ‎11-28-2008
My Device: PRIV (6.0.1/AAF518), Z10/Z30/Q10 (10.3.2.2813), Playbook (2.1.0.1526)
My Carrier: TMobile USA

Re: Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?


RunzWithScissorz wrote:

I am baffled I haven't found any raging against this?


Likely because it is not accurate, as described above.

 

Refer:

Good luck!



Occam's Razor nearly always applies when troubleshooting technology issues!

New to the Community? Click here and also here for helpful guidance. Also please click here for additional helpful information to guide you as you proceed. I always recommend that you treat your BlackBerry like any other computing device, including using a regular backup schedule...click here for an article with instructions. If anyone has been helpful to you, please show your appreciation by clicking the button. Need a reference to BB10 OS/SR versions? Click here. Need a specific BB10 AutoLoader? Send me a private message.

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Contributor
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎03-02-2010
My Device: Q10

Re: Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?

I am well aware of unlocking, I am on my 3rd unlocked Blackberry, and had 7 unlocked Treos.

 

It's not the unlocking, but the "frequencies"? (if this is the correct word to use)

 

Pointing me to the different models and what frequencies they are capable of (and I also refer to the Wikipedia Q10 page which presents that same information in a table format) and saying "HERE you go" did nothing for me.

 

I have read that many people out there are buying new Blackberrys and cannot get them to work on "networks they weren't designed for". Unlocked or not.

I used to really like Blackberry... now, I hate it/them more than words can describe!
Hall of Famer III
Posts: 57,220
Registered: ‎11-28-2008
My Device: PRIV (6.0.1/AAF518), Z10/Z30/Q10 (10.3.2.2813), Playbook (2.1.0.1526)
My Carrier: TMobile USA

Re: Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?

Ahhh...sorry about that...from your first post, I did not fully understand exactly what you were intending. What you are describing is a much bigger problem than BlackBerry. Consider...

There are hundreds of carriers in the world, each with the right to choose the frequencies and technologies that they will support on their network. The variety is actually quite staggering, and causes challenges for the device manufacturers...quite simply, it is impossible to build one single device that supports ALL carrier frequencies/technologies yet still maintain a physical size factor that is acceptable to the end user. To support them all, the device would be quite large indeed!

Hence, the manufacturers must make different versions of the same model (as that link I provided discusses), each supporting a particular set of frequencies/technologies compatible then with a subset of all of those hundreds of carriers in the world. But the basic device is the same -- a Q10 is a Q10, regardless of which specific model is purchased...the only difference is the radio frequencies/technologies that the device supports.

So, it is indeed up to the buyer to ensure that they are buying a device that is specifically compatible with the carrier network they wish to operate it on...in our world as it presently is, there is simply no way to avoid that.

Now, that said, there are other complexities, some of which are BlackBerry specific, but nonetheless remain the purview of the carriers.

With legacy devices, since they use BIS, the specific carriers network must natively support that specific model number BB in order for the carriers BIS system to properly and automatically register the device to their network AND deliver the required Service Books. A carrier network, for example, that does not automatically support an 8520 cannot, therefore, be used simply by the end user for the BB proprietary services. "Generic" services (e.g., voice and SMS texting) can usually be achieved with any BB model on any carrier network that is compatible with the frequencies and technologies that the device supports (as per the first part above). But, the BB proprietary services require much more, and need the carrier-hosted BIS service in order to function, and most carriers choose to only automatically support a subset of all BB models on their network.

Again, though, this is a choice the carriers make. They own their networks, and have every right to choose the specific devices they will allow to operate on it. Further, for example -- if the carrier is not a CDMA one, then it would actually make no sense for them to spend the money necessary for their network to support a CDMA-only device (e.g., many of the xx30 device models). Hence, most carriers choose to support only a subset of legacy device models for compatibility with their BIS system. This is quite simply the way legacy BBs have always worked, and is not likely to change at all.

But, with BB10, BIS is abandoned. Generic data plans can work just fine for all services, including all that are considered "BB Proprietary". BB10 is hugely different from legacy in this regard, and there are positive and negative points about this issue. But, as long as the device is compatible with the carrier network for frequency and technology (as again per that first point above), then a BB10 device should work just fine on that carriers network. Of course, no one can say this with 100% surety...but there should be nothing stopping a compatible BB10 device from functioning on any carrier network that shares the same frequency/technology capabilities as the device itself.

Now, a complication still exists...many folks do not understand the abandonment of BIS for BB10. There are reports on some carriers that a data plan with BIS attached will prevent a BB10 device from functioning properly. There are other reports that on some carriers having BIS in place for the BB10 device impedes nothing (though, if it costs extra, it is a waste of money since it's not actually used with BB10).

In conclusion, I've had to write a very long response since your questions are so generic in nature...with specificity, my answer could likely be shorter. But, with such generic questions, one can only provide a breadth of reply and hope that somewhere within the requester can find that which they seek.

Good luck!


Occam's Razor nearly always applies when troubleshooting technology issues!

New to the Community? Click here and also here for helpful guidance. Also please click here for additional helpful information to guide you as you proceed. I always recommend that you treat your BlackBerry like any other computing device, including using a regular backup schedule...click here for an article with instructions. If anyone has been helpful to you, please show your appreciation by clicking the button. Need a reference to BB10 OS/SR versions? Click here. Need a specific BB10 AutoLoader? Send me a private message.

...................................................... ......................................................
Contributor
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎03-02-2010
My Device: Q10

Re: Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?

Well I have to say, that was some reply! And I appreciate it.

 

You lost me somewhere in the 6th paragraph, but I came back in the next one.

 

I have never used BIS (i'm just a "regular user").

 

Now all that said, and forgive me if this sounds a little SUCKY, but I do not relish the idea of buying a $500 phone that only works on one network. As I stated before, I will never (as long as I can help it) be encumbered by another contact. And this "new" technology technically puts us back to where we were before unlocking phones was possible.

 

It is very disappointing to hear this.

 

Sorry Blackberry, no upgrading for me this year! Or ever, if this continues to be the case. I'll stick with my 9780 until it dies, then consider my options elsewhere.

 

I used to really like Blackberry... now, I hate it/them more than words can describe!
Hall of Famer III
Posts: 57,220
Registered: ‎11-28-2008
My Device: PRIV (6.0.1/AAF518), Z10/Z30/Q10 (10.3.2.2813), Playbook (2.1.0.1526)
My Carrier: TMobile USA

Re: Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?


RunzWithScissorz wrote:

I have never used BIS (i'm just a "regular user").



All legacy (pre-BB10) BB users need BIS...without it, there is no on-device email, BBM, etc. So, for BB, BIS = "regular user".


RunzWithScissorz wrote:

Now all that said, and forgive me if this sounds a little SUCKY, but I do not relish the idea of buying a $500 phone that only works on one network. As I stated before, I will never (as long as I can help it) be encumbered by another contact. And this "new" technology technically puts us back to where we were before unlocking phones was possible.

 

It is very disappointing to hear this.

 

Sorry Blackberry, no upgrading for me this year! Or ever, if this continues to be the case. I'll stick with my 9780 until it dies, then consider my options elsewhere.

 



Well, I don't know what you think you are hearing, because from those words, you are not understanding what I said. There is no device manufacturer that truly makes one single device that works on ALL carrier networks...it just doesn't exist (for the reasons I discussed above, at the beginning), because the device would have to be so physically large that no one would buy it.

 

Unlocked, a BB10 device can work on any network that is compatible with the specific frequencies/technologies that the device supports (again, as per the link I gave you earlier). This is no different than legacy -- it's just with legacy they actually did different device model numbers -- 9900 and 9930 are the same thing, except the 9930 is CDMA where the 9900 is not. Same thing with the BB10 devices, it's just that they used that sub-model number information rather than the main Q10 model information. But it's essentially exactly the same as it's always been -- different sub-models to support different carrier networks.

 

I can personally attest to my original Z10 (STL100-3, unlocked) running perfect for 2 months on AT&T, and then shifting to TMobile with no issues whatsoever. I simply changed the SIM, and it shifted perfectly over to TMO. And it's even got full BB-level services (email, BBM, etc.) on a no contract "pre paid" plan -- $30/month for 100 minutes talk, unlimited SMS, and unlimited data (5GB at 4G, throttled thereafter).

 

I really don't know why you think you can only use one Q10 on one carriers network...because it just is not so. Whatever your information source is does not know their facts correctly. I encourage you to listen to the real facts and make your decision based on those rather than the falsehoods you have so far been buying into.

 

Good luck.



Occam's Razor nearly always applies when troubleshooting technology issues!

New to the Community? Click here and also here for helpful guidance. Also please click here for additional helpful information to guide you as you proceed. I always recommend that you treat your BlackBerry like any other computing device, including using a regular backup schedule...click here for an article with instructions. If anyone has been helpful to you, please show your appreciation by clicking the button. Need a reference to BB10 OS/SR versions? Click here. Need a specific BB10 AutoLoader? Send me a private message.

...................................................... ......................................................
Contributor
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎03-02-2010
My Device: Q10

Re: Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?

Okay, then to make myself abundantly clear what I am getting at, let me bring down to my level... bear with me for a minute.

 

If I were to buy a:

 

1) SQN100-1 - which from what I understand only works on Bell and Telus in Canada, can I use that phone with Rogers, Fido or Wind?

 

2) SQN100-2 -OR- SQN100-4 - can they be used with ANY Canadian carrier?

 

3) SQN100-3 - Does it work with Wind, Bell or Telus?

 

4) SQN100-5 - Will it work with Telus Bell or Rogers?

 

I wait patiently for your reply.

 

 

 

I used to really like Blackberry... now, I hate it/them more than words can describe!
Hall of Famer III
Posts: 57,220
Registered: ‎11-28-2008
My Device: PRIV (6.0.1/AAF518), Z10/Z30/Q10 (10.3.2.2813), Playbook (2.1.0.1526)
My Carrier: TMobile USA

Re: Q10 models are carrier specific. Isn't anyone bothered by this?

I cannot answer about any specific carrier, for I do not know the specific carrier frequencies and technologies. In general, I'd say the answer would be "no"...one simply cannot expect a device that supports one set of carriers frequencies/technologies to function on a carrier that uses different frequencies/technologies than the device supports.

But, you seem to be wanting to "blame" BlackBerry (and, by extension, all device manufacturers btw) for this problem...and that is, IMHO, completely misplaced. The manufacturers cannot change the laws of physics.

Your original contention was that the Q10 was locked to a specific carrier...for the Q10 as a model, that is completely inaccurate. For the sub-models you now have now finally clarified that you are concerned about, it still is not fully true...properly unlocked, each sub-model device can be used on any carrier, anywhere in the world, that operates on the same frequencies and technologies that the specific sub-model supports.

But, this returns to the sub-model information I provided earlier -- these are sub-models of the Q10 model line. And these sub-models quite simply must exist in order to have a device with physical characteristics that end users will accept.

This is exactly the situation I drew for you earlier -- one device simply cannot contain, within a size/form factor that users will accept, enough radios to handle ALL carrier frequencies and technologies everywhere in the world. To do so would require at least four separate antennas and four separate logic boards to manage those antennas...which would result in a device that is physically larger than a user will be willing to accept.

This is not a new problem, nor is it a BlackBerry problem. The problem is that our world contains too many different mobile frequencies and technologies, as chosen by the carriers. There can be no "world phone" device, for it's physical dimensions would be so large that no human would ever want to own it. Hence, each manufacturer must find a way to retain acceptable physical device dimensions yet still provide availability of devices that can function on as many carriers as possible.

The method BlackBerry chose to solve this problem (again, one created by the fact that we have too many different carrier technologies and frequencies in the world) is via the sub-model methodology, with each primary model (Z10, Q10, 99xx, 97xx, etc.) being identical, and then using the sub models (as you listed for the Q10, similar for the Z10, with legacy devices often using the last two digits of the model number) to differentiate between the different radios that are included inside of each sub-model.

So, again this is neither "news" nor is it something BlackBerry created. This has been a problem for a very long time...it's an old problem from when the mobile market emerged and carriers each chose technologies and frequencies that they determined were best for them. The result was so many technologies and frequencies in the world that no single device can possibly house the antennas and other electronics required so as to support all of those carrier networks and technologies.

To have a true "wold phone" (which is required to satisfy your implied desire) would require it to be perhaps 3" thick and 10" long in order to internally house all that would be required (those separate antennas and logic boards required for each different carrier frequency range and technology). And it would consume battery power at a horrendous rate, requiring a physically larger battery as well. The result would be something so large and heavy that no one would ever buy it. Achieving such a "world phone" within an acceptable size/form/weigh factor has been the "holy grail" of device manufactures for years...but to date it is simply not possible.

We cannot change the laws of physics. We cannot change the fact that the carriers have chosen such a diverse set of radio frequencies and technologies for their networks. All the manufacturers can do is find a way to offer devices that are both acceptable to the human users as well as compatible with the broadest range of carrier networks possible. The result, for BlackBerry, is as you already know it to be...these sub-model lines, each supporting a different set of carrier network frequencies and technologies.

If you know a better way to solve this problem, you can probably become very rich very fast, and win the Nobel Prize for Technology at the same time. In the meantime, it's important that we all understand the limits to which all of this is constrained, and accept how it is being solved, and thereby have knowledge and understanding from which to make the best informed decisions that we can. But, if we instead set our expectation to something that simply cannot be achieved (again, those laws of physics), then we set ourselves up for great disappointments.

So, it is my contention that it is your premise that is the error here...what you think should be simply cannot be. Further, you thought that there should be a tremendous outpouring of complaints about the situation as specifically related to the Q10 sub-models...the method BlackBerry chose to deal with the issue is no different than they have been doing for many years (and, indeed, no different from other device manufacturers). So the reason no one is "up in arms" is because they understand the limitations, and further understand the methods the manufacturers have taken to deal with a law of physics that simply cannot be changed.

Good luck!


Occam's Razor nearly always applies when troubleshooting technology issues!

New to the Community? Click here and also here for helpful guidance. Also please click here for additional helpful information to guide you as you proceed. I always recommend that you treat your BlackBerry like any other computing device, including using a regular backup schedule...click here for an article with instructions. If anyone has been helpful to you, please show your appreciation by clicking the button. Need a reference to BB10 OS/SR versions? Click here. Need a specific BB10 AutoLoader? Send me a private message.

...................................................... ......................................................