08-25-2011 02:26 PM
I'm having somewhat of the same issue. I'm trying to add the S/MIME package to my VZW Bold 9930 and verizon just posted the OS a few days ago. After I install it, everytime I run the loader.exe it crashes. (This is on XP SP3) If I right click on the loader.exe and do a 'Run as' but just pick the current user I log in as, it will actually load, but never find the device.
This loader version is 18.104.22.168. I've cleared out the apploader directory and stuff but to no avail.
08-25-2011 05:01 PM
The issue with the "Handheld ..." error message might be that the software sitting inside the handheld device, i.e. the smartphone, is an older version with respect to the loader.exe which you find in the' AppLoader' folder.
Usually, the desktopmanager (DTM) fills the 'Apploader' folder with the most up-to -date loader.exe version, i.e. the newest loader.exe might be a mismatch for what is sitting in the smartphone and causes the error.
Somehow, this newest DTM or device software does not work in all cases and one should then download an older driver version. I suggest 2 different routes to get an older driver, i.e. a match for your smartphone's loader.exe software:
1) Install an older DTM and don't run DTM yet but check whether the loader.exe version has changed (if not you might have to clear the 'Apploader' folder too when installing older DTM versions)
2) Leave the DTM as is and install an older device software version by first clearing the 'Apploader' folder content as described before
Old is relative and one can only guess that the version as seen in the smartphone under options/device/About device versions is what is presently active and needs its matching loader.exe. Trial and error is the strategy that worked for me.
Remember, always use device software from your current service provider, e.g. Bell, Rogers, Verizon, etc., and if the newest device software does not connect, try to back-step one version.....
08-25-2011 09:39 PM
I think my problem is on the PC not the phone. I loaded the same version of the BB Desktop on another PC running the same version of windows and it works fine. Whenever I need the Application Loader I just use the laptop I use for travel rather than the desktop. Since I've found a workaround I've gotten lazy about hunting for a real solution.
08-26-2011 03:34 PM
Same here, there is nothing wrong with the device, because the loader crashes before the device even gets a sniff of my computer. There is something wrong with their OS installer on the 9930 for Verizon.
I've tried it on 3 different XP laptops and 1 Windows 7 laptop and the loader.exe crashes every single time. The kicker is on one of my laptops i somehow fixed it but for the life of me I don't know how.
Loader.exe will actually run if I right click on it and select 'Run As.' Even on XP I just pick the same account I'm logged into and the wizard will launch without crashing, however, in this state, it will never detect the device once I plug it in so it is worthless.
It's how the installer is installing the software. It requires admin rights so if you install it as a generic admin account, then anyother user will never beable to use it because Device Manager won't start and the software doesn't give you the option to install for All Users. It's very frustrating as I have a bunch of people wanting to get rid of their old Tours and Bolds to get this new badboy...
08-26-2011 03:37 PM
Another option would be to just install the Device Manager then they can run the loader from my blackberry server where I have installed the device software. That's how I have had the install updates in the past, but back then we had some sort of standalone device manager install. I don't seem to see that anymore, I have to actually install device software or the whole bloated device manager which I don't want anywhere near my computers.... Can you get just the device manager anymore?
08-29-2011 06:22 AM
ive been trying to update my device software for two months now off and on a couple hours at a time. spent way too much time. tried wiping all previous versions ect. followed all instructions in postings and this problem is the icing. im no computer expert but i'm no dummy. Aren't these things supposed to be plug and play any way. dont see why i should have to bring my phone and computer to a tech to preform a simple update. Love my BB but i can see why most of my buds are getting iphones now.
09-01-2011 09:09 PM
Unfortunately, if this posting is a bit more techi than you like it to be and a bit too long, blame it at this nasty error. You can skip now halfway down to “So how can we …” and try the 22.214.171.124 solution if you haven't done so.
I guess this ‘Handheld error’ will be around for some time for some people with their non-cooperating hardware. Time will tell. Since I found a solution for my PC and posted it I thought this was good enough but the last posting about the iphone made me thinking to revisit the solution a bit more and be more specific about hte solution because I like my BB too. Only 2 people reported sofar success so there is hope.
So I turned my research to the communication traffic. What is going on with what loader versions on my PCs? I have loader.exe version 126.96.36.199, 188.8.131.52, 184.108.40.206, 220.127.116.11 and why do these versions all work on my 2 laptops and only the 2 older versions work on my PC? Why is my PC a lemon? Good question? From now on I do a lot of guessing but bear with me, this is part of the 'Handheld journey' …
I observed on my PC the following constant USB traffic pattern after I plugged in my torch and did nothing. (The torch opens a window asking us users what we want to do: Charge Only, Sync Media, USB Drive).
When I selected ‘Charge Only or did nothing, the following pattern emerged after the initial PnP communication subsided: “DN UP DN UP UP DN UP DN UP UP”. Note that MS explorer shows on my PC under My computer: Removable disk [H:] and Removable Disk [I:] but cannot talk to it because RIM makes the BB to appear as a composite device (?).
This communication pattern is then repeated after it waits for the remainder of the second to elapse and then repeats the pattern as long as my torch is connected.
However, when we start a ’working’ loader.exe the default increment time is altered to less then 1 second for one cycle telling the USB host controller to pay attention and send the packet to a new handle, i.e. my torch location without a handle ‘endpoint’. I observed different times, e.g. 0.86s on my PC and 0.18s on my laptop for the same loader version.
I then plugged my torch in and selected: ‘USB Drive’. This time a different communication pattern emerged: ‘DN UP DN UP’, and then it repeated with the default time of 1 s again but this time my PC reported with MS Explorer under ‘My Computer’: Blackberry User Tools (H and Blackberry1 (I.
This selection is more useful and allows Microsoft to talk to my torch with MS Explorer as a regular USB device which comes in handy when I want to maintain, say my music library on my torch to my likes. I listen to my piano’s music (see my avatar) with my BB often.
What happens to the communication pattern when a loader crashes? Nothing!!! The communication pattern repeats unaltered. This tells me that the loader could not ‘butt in’ and alter the default time to less than a second.
Continuing the guess work, when the loader.exe starts it ‘sees’ either of the 2 above patterns and must ‘butt in’ at the right instant of time by redirecting the USB handle to a non-endpoint location , i.e. the connected device. It then modifies the increment time-interval time to less than 1 s for one cycle if the USB host controller is cooperating. It seems that when I run loader.exe version 18.104.22.168 or version 22.214.171.124 on my PC it does not have enough time to change the default interval time to less than 1s, i.e. it makes no contact with my torch and crashes, i.e. the communication pattern resumes at the default 1 s interval as before.
If I run loader version 126.96.36.199 which came with last year's DTM on my PC it mostly finds the torch and connects to it but 2 scenarios emerge: one is good and one is bad.
If it is ‘good’ it goes temporary for a hike as far as Microsoft is concerned .The task manager reports “Apploader Wizard not responding” but when one watches the USB traffic it gets all the application-info from the torch in the meantime but it takes more than 9s during which time the loader.exe leaves the watchdog timer from Microsoft in the dark. Once it has all the info the task manager sees the ‘loader’ responding to its watchdog handshake and retracts the non-responding message. So this is the good scenario and works most of the time on my PC system.
If it is ‘bad’ it connects first to my torch but then goes a bit later for a permanent hike as far as Microsoft is concerned and into an infinite loop as far as RIM is concerned. The communication never stops. It keeps talking in a loop to the same 2 addresses all the time. This issue is a bit different than before but who knows why this is happening.
Could it be that my USB host controller is a lemon (?). I therefore retract my previous statement with respect to mismatched device software drivers. As a matter of fact; all RIM’s loader.exe versions are working properly if they are surrounded by co-operating hardware/software.
Opening my PC MS Device Manager I found the followingtandard Enhanced PCI USB Host ControllerVIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller (is this a lemon ..?)
The ‘enhanced’ in the first line tells me that my USB ports can handle high speed communication (crash potential for flaky USB communication implementations?). The second line tells me whose hardware and software handles my USB traffic. If you experience crashes give us contributors this techi-feedback, i.e. what are the 2 USB lines in your device manager and what version of the loader.exe is crashing your system. This might help us to get a ‘handle’ on the ‘Handheld error’. Please, test then only with version 188.8.131.52 to see whether it makes a difference.
Here are the 2 lines of my 2 laptops where all 4 loader.exe versions work just fine (why?, good hardware?).
Intel ® 81802FB/FBM USB2 Enhanced Host controller
Intel ® 81802FB/FBM USB Universal Host controller
Intel ® 82801DB/DBM USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
Intel ® 82801DB/DBM USB Universal Host Controller
This means that all the people who discovered that their device, i.e. their connected snartphone, had no issues were correct. So our phones are good but not all PCs are up to the loader.exe communication task (Back up communication works, Media Sync communication works).
I suspect there is a maximum redirect time window allowed by Microsoft. If the loader does not ‘butt in’ and keeps handshaking with MS’s OS, it is retired and then the loader.exe fails. So what could it be? I now guess it is the latency and implementation of some barely conforming USB host controllers with their respective USB software/hardware which are the culprits.
It would be nice if RIM could accommodate these non-conformers via maintaining the robust timing implementations as I observed in loader version 184.108.40.206 in future 'loader.exe' releases.
So how can we install this older loader version 220.127.116.11 into the 'Apploader' folder of our DTM (Desktop Manager) and show RIM that there is a solution? I assume you have the newest DTM version running on your PC. If you don’t have it you can find it here:
File name: 610_b034_multilanguage.exe
and install it but it is not necessary for this work around test. Then go to:
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Research In Motion\AppLoader (described in earlier postings)
What is your loader.exe version? Mark it down for the feedback. Now delete this file (this prepares your PC to accept the older loader version in the next step).
Next we are downloading a device software which fixed my ‘Handheld error’ for my torch because when it installed, it loaded version 18.104.22.168 into the ‘AppLoader’ folder provided there is no 'loader.exe’ present. Go now to the next posted link even if you have not a torch and you are not a Bell subscriber because we will not use this software afterwards at all. It is only installed for this test to get our hand onto the loader version of my choice. You have to uninstall the device software right away so it cannot be used accidentally later. Promise? When you uninstall the device software it will not touch the 'AppLoader' folder so the DTM will keep working if this loader version works on your PC.
then on this page select under North America ‘Bell Mobility Inc.’
which brings you to this site:
now select: Blackberry ® Torch 9800 Smartphone and then ‘next’ which brings you to this site:
then on this page download this file:
File name: 9800AllLang_PBr6.0.0_rel2391_PL22.214.171.124_A126.96.36.199
Close down your DTM if it is still running, disconnect your smartphone from your PC, and download the above file to your desktop or wherever you can find it later. Maybe you have already a download folder for downloads. Now install this file from where you saved it to, say it is on your desktop then double click it. After you finished the installation, open MS Explorer (not Internet Explorer) and go here:
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Research In Motion\AppLoader
Do you now see version 188.8.131.52 in this folder? If yes, connect your smartphone device and run this loader.exe by double clicking it.
Now depending on your USB hardware, remember, I am guessing, the tetst should work OK or your hardware is worth than mine and the error continues. WIf it connects wait till you see some of your apps andthen hit cancel.
Another reason why his file is handy to have is to use it to take a picture of your device screen. This info can be found elsewhere on the forum.
In any case, it is now time to uninstall the improper device software which you just installed. Remember, you promised it to do it for this test only. Reinstall the proper device software for your device and service provider, e.g. go to Verizon on the above device download page if your service provider is Verizon and if you had their device software installed before. If you did not have any device software installed before you must still uninstall it because it could screw up your device later but the uninstall will keep the loader.exe in your 'AppLoader' folder untouched. Keep it till RIM has a better solution. If you download a new DTM it might overwrite it so make also a copy to your download folder, just in case you need it again.
As I said before if your DTM still does not work on your system after you selected ‘Applications’ (this is were most users get the error because back-ups and Media Sync use different USB software drivers) then I suspect there are worth USB host controller hardware/software versions out there than on my PC which are not capable to accept the redirection of the handle timely enough to the device no matter what. Try some newer hardware at your friends in the meantime or what other PCs you can get your hand on. Laptops seem to be have better USB hardware (?).
Is this still RIM's issue? Probably not, they can point the finger to the non-conforming hardware but is this good for their image? RIM might want to address it someday even we are a minority lemon user group with older hardware or the iphone option looks the way to go for some users as said in the previous posting.
Please, let other people know if this version fixed your problem or you still have trouble, i.e. which loader version worked or didn’t work for you with what USB host controller. Maybe I climbed up the wrong tree again but there are so many. Who knows the right one? If you post something back give feedback with a bit tech-info. Just saying it crashes or I have this ‘Handheld error’ on my PC it not sufficient to us contributors who want to help you and others with this problem. Enough guessed?! There is no easy solution for this problem if it is a hardware/software issue.
09-03-2011 02:48 PM
Thanks very much for your help. I have a bold 9700 Telus mobility. i have a new laptop running windows 7. The application loader version was 184.108.40.206 . Usb controller intel 5 series 3400 - 3b34. Dont know if these # are any help or not. i did what you said to do in the previous post. deleted app loader and followed the links to install version .15. the app loader will now read my phone (if this makes sense).
i downloaded the 6.0 os for telus from the download page. when i open dtm it still says there is an update avalible and when i click get update a window opens saying i need an updated component of dtm first. when i proceed with that it says downloading dtm and freezes. start task manager to end dtm and it says that dtm is waiting for a response from me. no window to choose anything. click end task and then get hand held app loader wizard has encountered a problem and needs to close.
is the new os even worth my time ? i am thinking i should just forget it and stick with 5.0os. please help.
thanks again for you time and please excuse the lack of details. if you need to know anyting elese let me know.
09-03-2011 10:11 PM
Well, if RIM is watching they should realize something and learn which USB host controllers are not compliant with the USB standard communication protocol. Your info is useful and we put Intel 5 series 3400 USB host controller on the watcht-out-for (USB lemon) list. We have now 2 known candidates for 'lemon' controllers.
If I understand you right loader version 220.127.116.11 did the trick for you. Good. Now you loaded and installed version 6 device software from Telus's website to upgrade your phone OS version. When you use the DTM it wants first to install an upgrade.
Here are 2 ways to deal with it:
a) with DTM
b) via the update function in your Bold 9700 under options/advanced options/wireless update. I would try this first if it finds the update device software OS 6.
If your DTM asked for an update, try to skip and ignore it for now. If it is the newest version it should be happy.
RIM made changes on their DTM download page and removed last year's version on Aug. 29 (?); \
Before you uninstall any software make a backup of the ‘AppLoader’ folder with loader.exe version 18.104.22.168, say to your desktop.
Uninstall your device software first then your DTM.
Install your new DTM from here (?):
select: Blackberry for PC
select: Blackberry Desktop Software then select ‘next’ and get this page
select this file: File name: 610_b034_multilanguage.exe
After you downloaded it,say to the desktop, double-click it which will install it.
Reinstall your Telus device software similarly.
Open the 'AppLoader' folder as described before and check the loader.exe version; probably 22.214.171.124, now delete all files in this folder. Open now the saved 'AppLoader' folder on your desktop, select all files, copy them, and paste them into the empty folder where you deleted all files.
Check now that you have loader 126.96.36.199 present in this folder. Plug in your Bold. and double-click the loader.exe and wait a bit. If you see your ‘apps’ hit cancel.
If you hit cancel then you are ready to test your DTM again. Start it and skip any update, make a backup of your Bold’s files and follow the instructions to update your device software from 5 to 6.
I never had to update my torch OS via the DTM. I used the wireless update so I can't comment on method's a) issue.
Hopefully the 'Handheld error' is gone and does not stop you to fix the other issue. If the other problem still persists post a new message with respect to this problem so other contributors might be able to suggest their solutions. This is a 'Handheld error' thread and people look not here for upgrading device software (OS) support so my suggestion might not work after all. I just like to create a known start point for the next person. Thank you for testing solution 188.8.131.52 with techi-feedback.
By the way, since my hydro was off for the last 41/2 hours I wrote this posting on my BB torch but when I tried to post it, it vanished because my radio was turned off. RIM should ask me:”Do you really want to turn your radio off?” It happens easily when one puts the torch in a pocket unintentionally. Luckily, I was able to copy the reply to my ‘ToDo.doc’ file when the post button turned 'grey'. Then, when I wanted to paste it back into a new reply box after I turned the radio on I was not able to do so……