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Developer
Posts: 1,280
Registered: ‎03-03-2011
My Device: Playbook, Z10, Q10, Z30 with Files & Folders and Orbit of course
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Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World


QuiteSimple wrote:

Hm, I tried to reproduce the issue - it is working fine for me (OS 2.0.1.358)


Thanks for testing, QuiteSimple. It seems there are three intermittent problems occuring:

 

  1. some users are getting older versions
  2. some paid users are getting the trial version
  3. some trial users aren't getting a Purchase Now button

Some users are experiencing more than one of these consecutively. I've had #1 and #3 happen on my device. I'm in touch with RIM directly about this, and will update this thread as the situation unravels unfolds.

Files & Folders, the unified file & cloud manager for PlayBook and BB10 with SkyDrive, SugarSync, Box, Dropbox, Google Drive, Google Docs. Free 3-day trial! - Jon Webb - Innovatology - Utrecht, Netherlands
Developer
Posts: 6,541
Registered: ‎10-27-2010
My Device: HTC One, PlayBook, LE Z10, DE Q10
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World

About 5% of my users are getting previous versions (me being one of them). RIM seems to have no idea why this is occurring. You would think and hope that App World has some trace feature to track the steps from request to delivery. It seems to just be grabbing the wrong BAR file. Quick fix would be to soft link that older BAR files to the current BAR file. That would allow them to get the correct installation while still be able to trace the problem.
Developer
Posts: 1,280
Registered: ‎03-03-2011
My Device: Playbook, Z10, Q10, Z30 with Files & Folders and Orbit of course
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World


Innovatology wrote:

It seems there are three intermittent problems occuring:

 

  1. some users are getting older versions
  2. some paid users are getting the trial version
  3. some trial users aren't getting a Purchase Now button

I received an update from RIM about problem  #3

 

"From my last discussions with the Developer who worked on this, the fix should be included in the final roll-out of the 2.1 OS.  I unfortunately don’t have any time frames on when that OS will be dropping."

 

No info on problems #1 or #2 .

Files & Folders, the unified file & cloud manager for PlayBook and BB10 with SkyDrive, SugarSync, Box, Dropbox, Google Drive, Google Docs. Free 3-day trial! - Jon Webb - Innovatology - Utrecht, Netherlands
Developer
Posts: 1,280
Registered: ‎03-03-2011
My Device: Playbook, Z10, Q10, Z30 with Files & Folders and Orbit of course
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World


Innovatology wrote:

MSohm wrote:

 

If I have a Try & Buy app how do I add updates? What is the expected method for doing this?

Vendors with PB/BB10 apps will have to create a new title with a different license type 




Putting aside our frustration with this decision for a moment, I feel RIM should be doing a lot more to make this transition smoother for existing PlayBook Try & Buy apps. Your users and your devs deserve better, especially in light of this communication debacle.

 

In my opinion, having to create an entirely new app is not an acceptable solution, because it does not provide an upgrade path for our existing paid users unless we maintain two seperate versions of the app forever, and because it destroys our reviews, ratings, ranking and links from other sites into App World (which will severely affect our Google page rank too).

 

I strongly urge and petition RIM to urgently put in place a procedure that allows us to:

 

  1. convert existing PlayBook apps from "Try & Buy" to "Free", thus maintaining our reviews, ratings, rankings, links and allowing us to re-engineer our apps to the in-app purchases model
  2. and convert existing paid users of the app into purchasers of a digital good, thus allowing existing users to continue to upgrade to future versions.

Having to re-engineer our apps without notice is bad enough without these worries.



Bump! It has been 3 weeks with no response or movement in this area. We're stuck in limbo.

Files & Folders, the unified file & cloud manager for PlayBook and BB10 with SkyDrive, SugarSync, Box, Dropbox, Google Drive, Google Docs. Free 3-day trial! - Jon Webb - Innovatology - Utrecht, Netherlands
Developer
Posts: 6,541
Registered: ‎10-27-2010
My Device: HTC One, PlayBook, LE Z10, DE Q10
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World

RIM ran some script for us to "unblock" users from preventing to get the current version of the app. I have not heard from anyone that this is actually working yet. The "fix" is suppose to be in the next release of app World client app for the PlayBook. I was told that this would be around the end of July.
Retired
Posts: 2,559
Registered: ‎10-16-2009
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Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World

@Innovatology

Could you send me a private message with some details on the apps that are experiencing this issue? I'll work with you to try to get these issues ironed out.
Garett
@garettBeuk
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Goodbye everybody!
BlackBerry Development Advisor
Posts: 314
Registered: ‎03-13-2009
My Device: BlackBerry Z30
My Carrier: RIM

Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World

My suggestion is actually the opposite as the one mentioned in your original post (my apologies I'm just seeing this now). 

 

I would recommend anyone running a PlayBook Try & Buy app to contact Vendor Support and have the application swtiched to Paid.

 

Why you ask?  A few reasons:

 

1) It retains ratings, reviews, download records, etc. 

2) Paying customers are unaffected by this and you can move forward giving them updates

3) Users who downloaded the Trial are unaffected as well.  They can either choose to use the 'Trial' Release they have installed or Purchase the full app

4) This also allows you to create a second, Free product that you use as your 'Trial'.  Within this Free app, you can build in a nag prompt and deeplink users to the Paid version

 

Developer
Posts: 6,541
Registered: ‎10-27-2010
My Device: HTC One, PlayBook, LE Z10, DE Q10
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World

Keep in mind that if you had a paid upgrade during anytime during the process, some users will still be blocked to get the current release. This is suppose to be fixed in the next release of the OS. You might be able to get that upgrade removed, but then you willl lose that revenue to those users that never paid the upgrade, who now want the current release.
Developer
Posts: 1,280
Registered: ‎03-03-2011
My Device: Playbook, Z10, Q10, Z30 with Files & Folders and Orbit of course
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World

[ Edited ]
Ryan,

rhearty wrote:

My suggestion is actually the opposite as the one mentioned in your original post (my apologies I'm just seeing this now). 

 

I would recommend anyone running a PlayBook Try & Buy app to contact Vendor Support and have the application swtiched to Paid.

 

Why you ask?  A few reasons:

 

1) It retains ratings, reviews, download records, etc. 

2) Paying customers are unaffected by this and you can move forward giving them updates

3) Users who downloaded the Trial are unaffected as well.  They can either choose to use the 'Trial' Release they have installed or Purchase the full app

4) This also allows you to create a second, Free product that you use as your 'Trial'.  Within this Free app, you can build in a nag prompt and deeplink users to the Paid version

 


As you know, we have (reluctanly) converted our Try & Buy app into two seperate products. But this has four major drawbacks:

 

  1. Users cannot easily navigate from the purchase version in App World to the trial version or vice versa. They either have to type search terms (which they probably won't) or be savvy enough to navigate via the vendor name (which they probably aren't).
  2. Previously, App World would list "$2.99 + Free trial". That no longer appears. We have to mention the availability of a free trial somewhere in the description. And we all know that people rarely pay much attention to descriptions.
  3. Ratings, reviews and rankings are spread across two products, which will bias the trial version negatively and the purchase version positively. Most potential customers will look at the trial version in App World and get an incorrect impression.
  4. Settings, databases & other stored data from the trial are not retained when the user installs the purchased version. We'll have to abuse the shared space for such info, leaving it prone to accidental deletion and tampering.

What is being done about this?

 

Besides these drawbacks, it is double the work to manage new releases this way, especially if you have a dozen localized descriptions. Then there's the problem of getting the trial & purchase releases approvded simultaneously. And marketing is more difficult with two different links into App World. I could go on for a while, but I'll stop there...

 

If indeed only 112 vendors were using Try & Buy, perhaps improving the documentation, doing some promo, publishing some sample code or adding some API's to facilitate trial versions would have been a better alternative than simply blocking the whole, perfectly usable model. As you can probably tell I'm still pretty frustrated with this.

Files & Folders, the unified file & cloud manager for PlayBook and BB10 with SkyDrive, SugarSync, Box, Dropbox, Google Drive, Google Docs. Free 3-day trial! - Jon Webb - Innovatology - Utrecht, Netherlands
BlackBerry Development Advisor
Posts: 314
Registered: ‎03-13-2009
My Device: BlackBerry Z30
My Carrier: RIM

Re: PlayBook Try&Buy No Longer upload in App World

Hi John,

 

Completely understand the frustration - the removal of Try & Buy was not well executed and we know that.  

 

With regards to your 4 major concerns:

 

1. This can be alleviated but deeplinking between your two products (unsure why you'd deeplink from Paid to Trial, but the options are there for you to implement how you see fit).  Users running the Trial get a nag upon launch that when clicked deeplinks them right to the Paid version in App World.  No need to search, or go looking for the Paid version of a Product they might really like and want to pay for.

 

2. Agreed - no longer do we have Paid apps advertising that a Free Trial is available.  This is something we need to look into as we move forward. An example I'm thinking of on this early Saturday morning is allowing Vendors to use a flag on their Paid versions and link that to a Free version within the Vendor Portal.  This creates a link and changes the visual behavior of the app on the store (adds the "+Free Trial" and a button to acquire it).  Again, just thinking out loud but I fully agree with you here.

 

3. Correct, in most cases the masses will flock to the Free version so mathmatically you'll acquire more less-than-positive reviews on the Free version.  The other way of looking at it is your Paid version (and it's good reviews) won't be dragged down by users reviewing the Free Trial under the same SKU.  I see a case for both approaches here (ie. Not all bad one way, and all good the other way).

 

4. I see your point here, and can discuss this with Development on potential solutions (unfortunately not my area of expertise).

 

Re: Managing Multiple Releases -   There is another thread about meta-data being approved at the same time as corresponding Releases; a solution is being looked at to streamline these types of approvals (1 Vendor, multiple approvals required at the same time).  I don't have an answer but a problem we need to try and solve.

 

Re: Marketing -  True, but you may actually benefit from having two seperate SKU's vs. just one.  Some use cases below:

 

a) We Feature your Free app:  Because it's Free, you get a large uptake on downloads.  If you implemented a similar solution to what I mentioned in my first point above, you'd most likely get just as good of a turn-over as you would today from a Try & Buy app (user experience would be 2 extra buttons - and if someone is going to pay for an app, these 2 button are not a showstopper).  

 

b) We Feature your Paid app: Because the Feature brings users right to your Paid version (with no direct option to snag it for Free), you'd most likely end up with a higher Purchase rate than before (no worse).

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm completely with you on the frustration of the situation, and what appears to be a huge slap in the face w/ regards to your application.  Most of the challenges can be overcome, and I havent even addressed using In-App Payments to build in even more revenue generating opportunities.