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Guru I
Posts: 19,020
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Passport, Playbook, 9320BES
My Carrier: Bouygues _ SFR

Re: Google Calendar not syncing


willjansen wrote:

(...)

Ars Technica has a good write-up covering Google's actions, motives, and potential problems for iOS users regarding the issue of disabling ActiveSync for free users.

(...)

Google's primary reasoning for disabling ActiveSync support for free accounts is that comparable standards-based syncing protocols are now available, including IMAP, CalDAV, and CardDAV, and fully supported by Google.


Hello,

 

your post if very informative and gives a lot of details, thanks willjansen.

 

I will just comment on what is highlighted above.

 

Ars Technica did not cover Google's motives for that. The motive for Google is simply to:

  • weaken Microsoft Outlook users (up to version 2010, since the 2013 version will simply drive people out of office for non-pro users (the licence is now linked to a physical PC, cannot change PC without re-paying a license). The idea is to drive them to GMail and Google Drive, which is enough for maybe 75% of people
  • weaken WindowsMo & WindowsPhone usres
  • weaken iOS users (Google needs the iOS users' email & GoogleMaps queries, but not calendar & contacts)
  • weaken BlackBerry users

 

And the thing that allows Google to remove the ActiveSync for free users, is that there is an alternative (IMAP+CalDAV+CardDAV).

 

That being said, GMail could of course monitor who uses IMAP, and decrease the quality of service for BlackBerry users...




The search box on top-right of this page is your true friend, and the public Knowledge Base too:
Developer
Posts: 176
Registered: ‎06-23-2012
My Device: Z10 & Z30
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Google Calendar not syncing

Thanks willjansen, great summary post. It keeps things in perspective.

I agree with you on all fronts. I set up an Outlook.com (Hotmail) account using ActiveSync and it worked great.

I would probably not have as much issue with ActiveSync being pulled for Gmail if the IMAP/CalDAV/CardDAV service was working properly.

With CalDAV not allowing editable entries (which definitely seems like a BlackBerry problem, given that my Mac uses CalDAV to access Google Calendar with no issues), and with IMAP not updating immediately when I do important actions like delete an email, it becomes cumbersome to use.

I hope, at the very least, BlackBerry fixes the CalDAV issues on their own end and maybe adds an auto-sync trigger when major actions are taken on the devices in order to make the 15 minute sync interval less painful. This is similar to how BIS behaved.
Contributor
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎02-07-2013
My Device: Blackberry Z10
My Carrier: Koodo

Re: Google Calendar not syncing

"With CalDAV not allowing editable entries (which definitely seems like a BlackBerry problem, given that my Mac uses CalDAV to access Google Calendar with no issues), and with IMAP not updating immediately when I do important actions like delete an email, it becomes cumbersome to use."

 

Thanks for the reply raffi,

 

For me the more unforgivable problem between the two is CalDAV not working properly. I hope they are putting in the time to fix that issue because, if I hadn't managed to sneak in under the ActiveSync deadline, calendar syncing issues would have been a near-dealbreaker for myself.

 

IMAP seems to do a pretty good job receiving push emails and sending emails from the phone with near-instant syncing with Gmail on the web. There is a delay marking email as read or deleting when I do those actions on the phone, but there is a similar delay for ActiveSync (around 5 to 15 minutes).

 

Curiously, there seems to be no delay for either protocol when reading and deleting email on the web (i.e., if I read and/or delete an email from Gmail, my phone immediately mirrors the change).

Contributor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎02-15-2013
My Device: Z10
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Google Calendar not syncing

Why is everybody here just so quick just to blow it off as a google problem because google posted that they where going to pull support for active synch. It's funny how only that part is quoted that they have said they are going to pull support but not that they said they would leave it in place for another year. Also that its only for new accounts and not accounts already established, NOTE: Accounts NOT Devices. I also find it interesting that we do not want to blame BlackBerrys lack of thought in making sure that this feature was working considering it is a very important feature for most people using blackberry but are quick to drop the blame on Google, I love BlackBerry and have had one forever, but come on people, call a spade a spade, BlackBerry has broken this function with the last update and let's just face it and move forward. I am not convinced with all the devices I have setup to run active synch with gmail including my old blackberry device and they are all setup after my z10 did not work in that manner as I needed to get my email and contacts and calendar on to something...that this is a google problem. So stop blaming it on something else and send a clear message to BlackBerry that we love them but they need to fix this problem, Using Imap and Caldev is not the answer, it creates three different accounts and if u have more then one mail account, this can be quite confusing.
Developer
Posts: 176
Registered: ‎06-23-2012
My Device: Z10 & Z30
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Google Calendar not syncing


willjansen wrote:
Curiously, there seems to be no delay for either protocol when reading and deleting email on the web (i.e., if I read and/or delete an email from Gmail, my phone immediately mirrors the change).

Yeah, and while it's nice that the Gmail -> Phone syncing works smoothly and immediately, it's a bit inconsistent with the Phone -> Gmail delay and so it makes me antsy.

 

If I were a developer at BlackBerry (and I know this may be oversimplying things that I might not understand), I would simply auto-sync 30-60 seconds after the last action is taken on the device for that account. If I delete an email, and 20 seconds later I delete another email, that won't get synced until I go for about 30 seconds of no more actions. Then, it will sync automatically. This would be better than syncing after each and every action (wasteful), but at least still provides some sort of consistency.

Developer
Posts: 176
Registered: ‎06-23-2012
My Device: Z10 & Z30
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Google Calendar not syncing

[ Edited ]

Indisium wrote:
Why is everybody here just so quick just to blow it off as a google problem because google posted that they where going to pull support for active synch. It's funny how only that part is quoted that they have said they are going to pull support but not that they said they would leave it in place for another year. Also that its only for new accounts and not accounts already established, NOTE: Accounts NOT Devices. I also find it interesting that we do not want to blame BlackBerrys lack of thought in making sure that this feature was working considering it is a very important feature for most people using blackberry but are quick to drop the blame on Google, I love BlackBerry and have had one forever, but come on people, call a spade a spade, BlackBerry has broken this function with the last update and let's just face it and move forward. I am not convinced with all the devices I have setup to run active synch with gmail including my old blackberry device and they are all setup after my z10 did not work in that manner as I needed to get my email and contacts and calendar on to something...that this is a google problem. So stop blaming it on something else and send a clear message to BlackBerry that we love them but they need to fix this problem, Using Imap and Caldev is not the answer, it creates three different accounts and if u have more then one mail account, this can be quite confusing.

Listen, I don't believe any one of us knows the conclusive answer as to why these things aren't working.

 

  1. Where was the clear distinction that Google made between accounts and devices that you seem to constantly refer to?
  2. Why does Outlook.com ActiveSync work perfectly fine on the same devices that cannot access Gmail ActiveSync?
  3. FYI: Adding Gmail on older BlackBerries never used ActiveSync. They used BIS.

EDIT: Forgot one...

 

4. I am blaming BlackBerry for the CalDAV read/write problem

Contributor
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎02-07-2013
My Device: Blackberry Z10
My Carrier: Koodo

Re: Google Calendar not syncing

[ Edited ]

Indisium wrote:
Why is everybody here just so quick just to blow it off as a google problem because google posted that they where going to pull support for active synch. It's funny how only that part is quoted that they have said they are going to pull support but not that they said they would leave it in place for another year. Also that its only for new accounts and not accounts already established, NOTE: Accounts NOT Devices. I also find it interesting that we do not want to blame BlackBerrys lack of thought in making sure that this feature was working considering it is a very important feature for most people using blackberry but are quick to drop the blame on Google, I love BlackBerry and have had one forever, but come on people, call a spade a spade, BlackBerry has broken this function with the last update and let's just face it and move forward. I am not convinced with all the devices I have setup to run active synch with gmail including my old blackberry device and they are all setup after my z10 did not work in that manner as I needed to get my email and contacts and calendar on to something...that this is a google problem. So stop blaming it on something else and send a clear message to BlackBerry that we love them but they need to fix this problem, Using Imap and Caldev is not the answer, it creates three different accounts and if u have more then one mail account, this can be quite confusing.

The following is a quote directly from the official Google announcement regarding cancelling ActiveSync found here.

 

"Starting January 30, 2013, consumers won't be able to set up new devices using Google Sync; however, existing Google Sync connections will continue to function."

 

That seems to clearly indicate new devices will not be supported, rather than accounts.

 

As for the extended ActiveSync support, I only found Microsoft's official announcement, which explicitly states support for Windows Phone without any reference to support for other devices. I cannot find an official statement from Google regarding the extended ActiveSync support or any other publication that explicitly states this support extension is available to more than just Windows Phone users. If you can find one, I would surely appreciate a link to a reputable source on the matter.

 

It is entirely possible that Microsoft gave Google a deal on ActiveSync licensing (read: free) in exchange for extending their ActiveSync support for new connections with Windows Phone devices exclusively.

 

Trust me, I am not being "quick to blow it off as a google problem". I am genuinely interested in where the problem is coming from and have done several hours of research and testing to that effect. This is a huge deal for me. Having a calendar service that works seemlessly on my phone while syncing with other services and devices is a big productivity boon.

 

*Edited for clarity.

Contributor
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎02-07-2013
My Device: Blackberry Z10
My Carrier: Koodo

Re: Google Calendar not syncing


raffi wrote:

Yeah, and while it's nice that the Gmail -> Phone syncing works smoothly and immediately, it's a bit inconsistent with the Phone -> Gmail delay and so it makes me antsy.

If I were a developer at BlackBerry (and I know this may be oversimplying things that I might not understand), I would simply auto-sync 30-60 seconds after the last action is taken on the device for that account. If I delete an email, and 20 seconds later I delete another email, that won't get synced until I go for about 30 seconds of no more actions. Then, it will sync automatically. This would be better than syncing after each and every action (wasteful), but at least still provides some sort of consistency.


Or better yet, just give the option to the user to set syncing intervals at 30 seconds or so. Right now you can only set it as low as 15 minutes. I'm sure there is a battery life trade-off you might be dealing with if you could take that action, but as long as the user is aware, they could find a comfortable middle-ground for themselves.


Mind you, Google might have some sort of filter built-in to their servers that doesn't allow devices to sync more frequently than 15 minute intervals using IMAP. I am admittedly ignorant of the technical details behind syncing technology, so I am not aware of what is and isn't possible.

Contributor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎02-15-2013
My Device: Z10
My Carrier: Rogers

Re: Google Calendar not syncing

Okay.. Fine.. I know that it was working on my Z10 and then I had to wipe it because of problems, I know that an hour layer the same Z10 that was working would not work and the only change was an update from Blackberry. I know that I have set it up since on multiple devices and and that account works fine. Okay u guys can draw whatever conclusion u want, that is the conclusion I am drawing that BB screwed up on the update.. But more then that, I cannot see why BlackBerry is letting us just flounder like fish out off water and not just come out n tell us if there is a problem or not. If there is a problem, then what they are doing to fix it. But I guess they will just keep shut and let us go on about we're the problem lies. I have returned my blackberry device back to the store until such time as BlackBerry fixes or proves the problem is not theirs and going on about this on this forum which is supposed to be here to help, just seems to be a waste of time as I am getting no we're closer to an answer to a resolution.
Developer
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎02-28-2012
My Device: Passport, Z10 & Playbook 64 GB

Re: Google Calendar not syncing

See that Google has pulled the Active Sync on January 30, 2013 for new accounts, etc, etc. I have a Playbook which is using the Active Sync set up, but I can't get my Z10 to sync using it. I can get it to sync the main calendar with caldav, but none of the add-on calendars. I have Calendar Sync app installed on both the Playbook and Z10.  The Z10 would not have been in any of Canadian's hands on Jan 30, so for some to be able to sync and others not makes me scratch my head.

 

Would be nice to be able to sync all of my calendars

Passport 10.3.2.2474
Playbook 64 GB, Blackberry Z10