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Developer
Posts: 135
Registered: ‎11-14-2010
My Device: BlackBerry Z10 (White)
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

"This isn't a plug-in, this is just lazyiness by RIM and I'd like to hear an agrument otherwise."

 

Couldn't agree more. Does anyone even work for RIM these days? I have posted numerous times on here, and emailed devsupport about various issues, no one official ever responds. 

 

The message I'm getting from RIM is: "We couldn't care less about our developers, do it our way or bugger off"

 

Did anyone see that customer feedback survey they put out (it's pinned on the home page of the forums) it was an absolute joke - about 20 pages of nonsense aimed only at placating some "management initiative". If they wanted real feedback they'd just ask here on the forums, there's plenty of people willing to give them some "honest" feedback!  

 

 

 

Developer
Posts: 298
Registered: ‎05-02-2010
My Device: Bold 9700
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

[ Edited ]

@donturner

 

I took the time to go to BlackBerry Developer Days 2011 in NY and it was a complete waste of time.

 

  • The presentation was read off of PowerPoint slides.
  • WebWorks was pushed down our throats.
  • They couldn't answer questions about their own Simulators, i.e. I asked why isn't RIM taking the time to fix the Simulators on PC and why there isn't any Simulators for the Mac OS platform.
  • They couldn't answer a question about the BB Java Plug-in for Eclipse.
  • I asked to see the PlayBook they had and they said no, they were going to do that at the end of the day so people would stay.

The last point made me leave early, I was just frustrated and completely disappointed. It wasn't a developer day it was here is our old marketing data mixed in with our new marketing data to make us look relevant.

 

RIM is putting all of their resources with WebWorks and Adobe Air apps for the PlayBook and there is just no clear direction on the Smartphone any more.

 

Which is complete **bleep** because the RIM hardware is actually pretty good and their software is old and sub-par. Developing for a smart phone should feel like your developing for a mini-computer, with RIM it doesn't feel that way at all.

 

 

--Todd

Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit (6.1 Build 7600) | Java SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_24-b07) | Eclipse Version: 3.6.2 [M20110210-1200] | BlackBerry Eclipse Plug-in: 1.3.0.201102031007-19 | Java Compiler level: 1.3 | Targeting devices running OS 5 | Simulators: JDE 5.0 packaged 9700, 9630, 9300
Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

[ Edited ]

"WebWorks was pushed down our throats"

 

And there you have it.The strategic direction of RIM, and in fact, a host of other manufacturers.

 

RIM has invested a fortune in building a Java IDE and it hasn't paid off. Largely because they needed to rewrite simulators and the like that would integrate with the eclipse platform and apparently didn't have the courage. So my guess is they're ditching Java in the longer term (or possibly outsourcing?).

 

I have to laugh when I read the posts about Android apps for the Playbook. There is no Java VM for the Playbook! And not even the promise of one. In fact not a word from RIM about the subject and noone in the technical press has a clue anyway, so they rattle on about Android apps and miss the obvious questions.

 

My guess is Oracle is playing hardball and scrabbling for a piece of the tablet market (who is going to run Oracle apps on a tablet?).No doubt they're demanding a large license fee to go along with the damages they will inevitably receive from Google.

 

What you're seeing here is the first mutating cancerous cells leading to the ultimate death of a language.

 

And don't invest too much in Flash either. There is a complete lack of consistency in the approach to Playbook development with Flash. I gave up deveoping for the Playbook because I refuse to write code I know will be throwaway in a few weeks time (when Adobe release Burrito/Hero with full spark touch sensitive components).

 

The answer is WebWorks. And if you can manage the price of the native SDK's for RIM's future devices then you could be writing in C.

 

Lets face it, we're just a group of expendable developers that none of the big boys (Apple and Google included) gives a ****** about. Yesterday Java. Today Objective C. Tomorrow WebWorks.

 

By the way, having said all of that. 1.3.0 is a massive improvement over what went before. The debugger is actually usable for the first time ever and my cycle time for builds has become reasonable. It's just engineering for earlier releases that's the problem. I'm only going to support 5 and 6 from now on so it's not such a big deal.

Developer
Posts: 135
Registered: ‎11-14-2010
My Device: BlackBerry Z10 (White)
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

Thank you @br14 and  @

 

@br14 "I'm only going to support 5 and 6 from now on so it's not such a big deal."

 

I've been considering the same thing, I just don't have any stats on how many devices this would affect. Any idea how may pre 5.0 devices there are out there? Or what percentage of app world downloads are to pre 5.0OS? 

 

It'd be nice if RIM provided this info, but I reckon I've got more chance of getting that info from my 80yr old neighbour than from them ;-) 

 

Developer
Posts: 298
Registered: ‎05-02-2010
My Device: Bold 9700
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

@br14

 

100% agree.

 

While on topic somewhat, one of their PowerPoint slides noted that developers could write PlayBook apps natively, which immediately raised a red flag.

 

I asked, "You say we can write native apps for PlayBook, what do we use; Java, C++, C? There is nothing announced yet."

 

Response was, "Well, that's tricky because we're not done with QNX yet since QNX runs nuclear power plants and such and we're not there yet."

 

I guess what I got out of that response was, RIM may never release a SDK for native apps for PlayBook, because they may not know how to implement it correctly.

 

The more I look at the PlayBook, PlayBook tethered with a BlackBerry seems familiar to the failed Palm Foleo tethered to a Palm smartphone.

--Todd

Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit (6.1 Build 7600) | Java SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_24-b07) | Eclipse Version: 3.6.2 [M20110210-1200] | BlackBerry Eclipse Plug-in: 1.3.0.201102031007-19 | Java Compiler level: 1.3 | Targeting devices running OS 5 | Simulators: JDE 5.0 packaged 9700, 9630, 9300
Developer
Posts: 298
Registered: ‎05-02-2010
My Device: Bold 9700
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

@donturner

 

http://us.blackberry.com/developers/choosingtargetos.jsp

--Todd

Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit (6.1 Build 7600) | Java SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_24-b07) | Eclipse Version: 3.6.2 [M20110210-1200] | BlackBerry Eclipse Plug-in: 1.3.0.201102031007-19 | Java Compiler level: 1.3 | Targeting devices running OS 5 | Simulators: JDE 5.0 packaged 9700, 9630, 9300
Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

"RIM may never release a SDK for native apps for PlayBook"

 

They already have, but for partners of RIM. And QNX is a POSIX based operating system, so I imagine you could use any number of existing tool kits. Thats how Adobe has implemented Flash, and I'd be surprised if you could run Need for Speed well without native code.

 

Numbers wise, here is a sample of 60,000+ downloads between 22st November 2010 and 21st February 2011.

 

OS 6 - 24%

OS 5 - 59%

OS 4.6.1 - 11%

The rest were negligible with 4.7 and 4.7.1 being almost non-existent.

 

Based on the data I have my analysis is that the 4.6.1 and below would be mostly corporate. And 83% are on 5.0 and above.

 

So if you're developing for 4.7.1 and below you're spending a lot of time on only 17% of the market.

 

Incidentally I'd say my productivity has doubled with the 1.3.0 plugin and that would be a conservative estimate. My guess is they engineered the 6.0 sim to integrate well with eclipse. If only that could have been done for early sims maybe RIM would have 300,000 apps.

Developer
Posts: 298
Registered: ‎05-02-2010
My Device: Bold 9700
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

@br14

 

PlayBook SDK - I stand corrected, you're absolutely right.

--Todd

Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit (6.1 Build 7600) | Java SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_24-b07) | Eclipse Version: 3.6.2 [M20110210-1200] | BlackBerry Eclipse Plug-in: 1.3.0.201102031007-19 | Java Compiler level: 1.3 | Targeting devices running OS 5 | Simulators: JDE 5.0 packaged 9700, 9630, 9300
Developer
Posts: 135
Registered: ‎11-14-2010
My Device: BlackBerry Z10 (White)
My Carrier: Vodafone

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

@jtp5120 thanks for that link - I stand corrected, RIM I take it back! 

Developer
Posts: 122
Registered: ‎04-29-2009
My Device: 9630, 9700, 9800
My Carrier: Verizon

Re: BlackBerry Java Plug-in for Eclipse 1.3.0 released!

FWIW:

 

For those of you trying to rip the important features and plugins of the BB supplied "full install" of Eclipse 3.6.1 for the BB 1.3.0 SDK environment, and install them in your personal Eclipse distribution:

 

I had copied over the net.rim.ejde files from the features and the plugins folders over to my base Helios install of 3.6.1, but as some noted, that didn't result in a working enviroment (no blackberry IDE features).

 

I looked at the features.xml file for net.rim.EclipseJDE_1.3.0.201102031007-19 and all the 'requires' seemed to be there. But I noticed a feature that I didn't have in my target Eclipse install: org.eclipse.sdk.  Sounded important, so...

I then also copied org.eclipse.sdk and its includes; you can see the includes by looking at the features.xml file for org.eclipse.sdk in it's features directory: that seemed to enable the BB enviroment!

 

The additional  folders and files copied from the BB "full install"  features and plugins directories included:

 

org.eclipse.sdk

org.eclipse.pde.*

 

And just to be sure, I copied anything with a *.source_<version> (folders and jars)