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Developer
Posts: 2,268
Registered: ‎07-08-2009
My Device: various
My Carrier: various

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

I totally agree that the silent way of doing this is unacceptable. I never defended that. However, I felt that some of the people here were angry at the fact of BB OS being abandoned.

 

Yes, the way they did it is bad - but it's in line with RIM's other shortcomings. I'm sure most developers here have their own experiences of RIM being extremely slow getting back on even the simplest requests (as in weeks instead of hours). This overall approach slowed the releases on BlackBerry to a grinding halt and was the reason our company completely abandoned all new BlackBerry development this February.

 

So my "understanding" probably comes from the fact that I saw them doing it (through the eyes of my managers and our marketing and customer support) a few months ago. I'm not enraged because I have no reason to be. I absolutely sympathize with those who are, however.

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Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

[ Edited ]

 - I think all of us welcome the advances in BBX. However, you're missing some key points.

 

1. App sales for BB OS7 etc will crash when consumers realise there's no point in buying

2. BBX will not be released in beta soon enough for most developers to produce apps in time for launch - this means RIM could launch a product with few apps built for the platform. They're gambling that Android devs will make up the difference. 

3. Customers who have paid for apps will target both us and RIM when they find their purchases don't work on the new platform. You can already see the annoyance on some boards.

 

RIM is gambling its very existence on the new platform. That much is understood - but to deliberately discard thousands of developers and their code assets, as well as playing fast and loose with their app customers, seems like madness to me.

 

I'm not angry at the loss of  BB OS. I'm concerned that having invested so much time and effort into RIM apps, they make strategic decisions that in my opinion damage their abilities to sustain their market position and my ability to sustain my business.

 

Why should we invest time and energy developing for RIM if this is the reward? We're a small operation, but I'd guess conservatively this decision of RIM's will cost us $100,000. Clearly not something RIM cares much about.

 

For some development organisations the cost will be considerably more.

Developer
Posts: 455
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
My Device: Paper cup

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

What's got to me is:

1. Because of no compatibility, past work's return on investment will die out much sooner and faster than expected, and in some cases it was expected to grow with the market, not die,

2. Because of no compatibility, at least for some of us there will be a flatlining of productivity while we learn new skills, instead of a gradual transition per our own timing -- because any further investment in old OS will be into a customer base that will soon start diving to zero, so we have to drop that ASAP and start learning the new.

The concept of a compatibility mode, I.e. DOS mode in Windows 95, XP compatibility mode in Vista, Mac-68k box under Mac-PPC, or even Storm's terrible compatibility mode -- such things provide a gradual transition, less of a shock and loss to developers and consumers.

The worst example ever was Apple ditching the ]['s massive software base to create a squeaky-clean new Mac platform -- with about 3 apps and no developers.

RIM has created a squeaky-clean new platform, but is not being anywhere near as stupid as Apple was; firstly they don't have a massive software base Smiley Wink, and they're replacing it quickly with an even larger software base.

But it would still be a lot better if there could be a transition of 2 or 3 years instead of a discontinuity. Nature hates a discontinuity.

I was already planning to move in the same direction we now have to move in-- but not planning for the new phones to be incompatible with existing apps. Really can't believe that is happening.
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Developer
Posts: 91
Registered: ‎11-24-2009
My Device: Storm

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Wise decision to abandon blackberry development. In our company we will deliver our last apps on december and no new developments on january 2012. Every new decision on rim looks like rolling dices. If your life and business depends on this start looking elsewhere. In my experience we started java with blackberry and moving to android was pretty much an easy task. Now to "port" or recode all our development libraries to whatever they are going to use now will be a complete waste of time and money, not to talk about the huge investment in trainning and education you have to put on this change. if RIM is pushing you to learn and develop on android then just change to android. never forget this we, the blackberry users and developers made rim what they are. To take decisions like this just because a genius thought that dropping java and launch a nonsense blackberry jam its going to make everybody happy is wrong. Best wishes to everybody here and take care on your developments!
-Luis Fernando

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Developer
Posts: 723
Registered: ‎03-12-2009
My Device: Playbook

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

The silence on the part of RIM is deafening... that is my biggest issue with this debacle.
Developer
Posts: 1,178
Registered: ‎02-19-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX


simon_hain wrote:

arkadyz wrote:

Let me post a somewhat dissenting opinion here:

On one hand, I agree with those who say there should be some backwards compatibility with the BB Java in the future RIM devices (at least phones - I'm not sure about the tablets, frankly).

On the other hand, Java microedition, even with all BB additions, is a dying platform anyway. Developing in it is a nightmare, it is extremely convoluted and poorly documented (the latter is a huge failure of RIM). I guess they should have stopped at (or before) OS 6.0 and start working on a real platform. Now they finally started doing this - at least a year too late.


I absolutely agree to what you say here . However: Doing this change without communicating it openly is a very bad idea.

If you are a development company you have to plan for the future, and i guess if you earn your living on your own it is even more important to know where the development is going.

To have a developer conference and don't tell anybody about the most important change on the platform is bad.

 

I am excited about the new possibilities the QNX platform offers. I am not excited about having to switch to c++ though.

And i really don't like having to puzzle all of this out myself, having to fly home and tell it to my colleagues (well, they have read my post here i guess) and having none of the officials here allowed to comment on it.


This is my opinion with the simon words Smiley Very Happy

Developer
Posts: 455
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
My Device: Paper cup

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

How about our holiday sales -- how many customers who are eligible for a BBX phone in the next 3 to 6 month, will buy new apps for their current phone, or the phones of their family or business?

Also, anyone eligible for upgrade in the next year may not want to buy any expensive apps.

So there goes a chunk of our holiday sales, and this effect will get worse -- we'll be losing not only the new BBX users, but many BBOS users also, or at least they'll be more reluctant to buy now.

Time to make more apps free and rely on advertising?

Developer
Posts: 16,998
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Z10 LE, Z30, Passport
My Carrier: O2 Germany

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

[ Edited ]

just talked to shaun, he said they have a press release about this topic in the pipeline, PR is checking it etc.
He talked a lot about improving literally everything, let's see how that actually looks like (if you stick around that long)

 

edit: he directly confirmed that there will be no java player. and said "the absence of news about that should have made that very clear", which is a very good summary of RIM information policy.

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Developer
Posts: 541
Registered: ‎05-17-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

I've emailed Alec Saunders to let him know how this is going to affect me, what I think about this and whether or not I will continue to develop for BlackBerry. I suggest everyone does the same: alec.saunders@rim.com

 

Scott

Developer
Posts: 455
Registered: ‎03-04-2011
My Device: Paper cup

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

[ Edited ]

RIM, if the new phones can't run old BB apps, can you give us an offline app converter?  Just translate the entire project, Java and API's, into a native BBX app, and let us take it from there -- improving it using superior BBX features?

 

 

edit: On second thought, there are so many convolutions necessary to get the simplest things done in BBOS, that maybe it would be easier to put an app on the moon than convert it automatically.  But it would help alot if possible.