10-20-2011 09:18 PM - edited 10-20-2011 09:20 PM
Blackberry is a communication device first and formost.
You can call it a smartphone but it's a smartphone in it's own right.
I live in Asia, not Asian though, here in Bangkok and in Thailand BB is still the first choice for most of the active population.
The BB Messenger is a huge thing here.
add facebook to it, the fact that all my peers use BB cuz it's cool and as one girl said BB phones looks pretty
(not the touch screen Storm though).
Here you go, BB is the bigest seller here.
As well as in Indonesia, India, Malaysia used to be, now Android catching up fast there, I know cuz I visit KL often and know many pple who live there.
I have never heard anyone complaining about BBOS not looking cool, or slow, or difficult to use or whatever.
Here Android is not so hot, many dont even know what it is, everyone knows BB though (called BeeBee).
If she is a student for instance and if her friends have BBs she has to have a BB it's a must, cuz it makes
her being CONNECTED to them day and night, and what can be cooler than that for a Uni student.
It looks like RIM knows nothing its markets around the globe.
It's not even about the apps, many young users I asked, dont even know what the App World is, the answer is
"Well I have heard about it but I have never used it, may be I will try"
It's all about being connected. The easier the better.
I see iPhone users here, quite a few, but those are mostly guys who like to play games. Thats it.
Pple here still buy 8520 curves, cuz you can stay CONNECTED if you have it, never mind the crappy cam, lack of flash and slow CPU.
If it loooks pretty (the hardwear in this case), if it connects you to the world and your friends 24/7 and the price is right (currently around 200 USD) they will keep buying it.
I dont know anyone who bought a newer 9780 because it has OS7, let alone new 9900 that is priced at 700 USD here, they dont know what OS it has and don't care.
Thailand is all about style over substance so Indonesia with it's huge population , in this case it is reversed.
The functuinality comes first
BB touch screens are a falurehere.
No sales, and will not be for the new touch screens.
Overpriced one thing and secondly again, it's hard to type on it.
So, here we go again, give her (the local girl) the hard keys, a pretty casing,the BB messenger and FB and she is happy.
Touch screen is out.
About the playbook here.(weird name for the device; not much to play on it)
Total falure, no one buys it and will not buy. I dont want to go into the detail but it lacks all the native communication support, and BB is all about communication not the looks.
I dont know much about QNX and Im simply not interested, Im a die hard java fan with over 12 years experience and jobs in the Sillicon Valley, so do not tell me Java is outdated,
do you home work and look at the Android stack specially at the Dalvik VM.
It's the implementation that matters.
Sorry for the lengthy post but whatever RIM has been doing for the past year is beyond my comprehension.
10-20-2011 09:58 PM
People may say RIM is going to die, I say I will prove them wrong.
And how do you prove it?
I know dozens of developers that are abandoning RIM, good developers with important apps on their back.
In any case I hope you are right, personally I will create my bar as a port of our android app but I'm not glad with this kind of Class B development.
I probably can't.
IMHO I just hate when people become so pessimistic over something that's changed, even if it's something drastic, in a field that change so rapidly. I like to show that just because everyone else says that it isn't possible, doesn't mean it's actually impossible.
I am not attached to BlackBerry, but yet I stay because I see potential. Especially QNX, someone on this thread said people only look at apps, not tech or OS when it comes to picking a phone. Yet if you look at Android, people have picked different Android phones over how fast the CPU is in it. If that isn't buying based on tech, I don't know what is. I have friends who do Android and iPhone development who have said that if QNX would have been on a phone/tablet before they got into development, they would've skipped Android and iPhone to come to it.
That's after seeing what Android and iPhone have accomplished and seeing something like the PlayBook not do as many spectacular things.
If I develop for iPhone, I have to do it in Objective-C (ack!) and need to speed a good deal of money to do so. If I develop for Android, I have to do something that reminds me of coding a WPF application, but not as easy, clean, efficent, fast, or useful. If I want to do native development on Android, I need to basically write JNI. If you've never seen JNI, good. It will leave one less person scarred in this world. Windows is, well, Windows. Develop for that, probably get ridiculed about as much as I do now and have a smaller user base to boot (though I would much rather code in C#). That leaves BlackBerry, BBOS: needs lots of work but I can still do a bunch of stuff with it. BBX: It's like writing a desktop application, but mobile. Suddenly life becomes a whole lot easier.
I will code until I cannot code anymore, so if I happen to be doing that on BBOS/BBX then I will continue to do so. If RIM gets bought out, I will probably still code for it (including whatever system it gets merged into). If RIM simply vanishes, I sigh and go on coding for all the other projects I work on.
Don't know if that anwsered your question.
10-20-2011 10:27 PM - edited 10-20-2011 10:29 PM
@cyberia61 Java is dying. Google and Oracle are killing it.
RIM is just one of the first to cast off Java. The gossip round here is that RIM and Oracle cannot agree on licensing arrangements for Java on the Playbook. I notice they don't say that in interviews. I guess Sun gave them a great deal on the BB OS JVM but i get the impression Oracle wants to clean up on BBX.
Google created Dalvik in part so it didn't have to license Java.
Oracle will have Google in court before long. If (as I expect) Oracle wins, no doubt every Android device will carry a license premium. Google has been very clever, but essentially greedy. Their greed and Oracles could end up destroying a perfectly good technology.
Already Samsung has made a commitment to create Windows 8 phones, perhaps in preparation for dropping Android altogether if the litigation increases.
So RIM would be at a huge competitive disadvantage with Android if it implements Java ME for BBOS on BBX. Because it would pay a significant license fee where Android manufactures pay none. Whereas if Google loses RIM will simply pay the same as every other Android device so theres no competitive disadvantage in allow Java for Android.
I can understand RIM's desire to move away from Java ME (despite the fact it has thousands of Java developers on staff). It's technically limited and legally expensive.
What is not so clear is why they haven't bothered in the least to consider our (developers) investment in the BB OS platform. I don't have so many apps, but even so I still have a huge investment in code and time. I don't care about Java so much, but I do care about my investment.
If RIM doesn't or can't create a BB OS Player, surely they could afford to have a small team generate conversion or other tools to help us migrate our code. Create corresponding C API's in BBX and I imagine we could easily port our code to BBX and embrace the platform. i.e. take the Java syntax; compile to C or machine code; and link to corresponding QNX API's.
RIM could have spun this in a very positive way, showing they really do care, and coupled with available Android apps created a sense of positivity in the new platform, instead of it being a place where hobbled Android apps run kind of ok.
Developers are RIM's first line of marketing. Apple have always known that - RIM seem to be taking a while to gain awareness.
10-20-2011 10:34 PM
"who have said that if QNX would have been on a phone/tablet before they got into development, they would've skipped Android and iPhone to come to it."
and what do they base such an opinion on if they have no experience developing for QNX>>??
it's like saying "I should have had greek Sambuca last night (what the hell is that??) instead of Whiskey. Have you ever tried Sambuca? No never."
10-20-2011 10:38 PM
"@cyberia61 Java is dying. Google and Oracle are killing it.
If that was true, Google would have not continued investing in the new versions.
You should know what Google is or may be you don't.
Windows??? u must be kidding me!!
10-20-2011 10:55 PM
Google don't really care about Java. Android is written in C. If they don't have Java they'll use something else. But all those Java apps need some kind of JVM and that needs licensing. And if Android is banned by an injunction, Java will be under threat everywhere.
I've been developing in Java since the late 1990's. I have no desire to write off that experience, but I'm brushing up on my C/C++ because I think RIM has a point. I don't like the way they've enacted the change but that doesn't make them wrong.
Google and Oracle are headed down a path to destroy Java. We're one of the first casualties but you can bet there'll be no Java on mobile devices if Oracle win (which it will as things stand). Java will end up being a legacy technology used on expensive servers.
10-20-2011 10:59 PM
"I’m mainly a C# dev so possibly porting the Mono framework"
@rcmaniac25 have you any experience with the framework? I'm guessing C# would be an easier switch than C++.
10-20-2011 11:21 PM - edited 10-20-2011 11:21 PM
@cyberia61 How would I know? We all follow different technologies and look at tech news. After last year's Dev Con I said that I was really excited to try development on the PlayBook and they said they just saw the articles on QNX and wanted to know my opinions. I told them I never worked on it so I wasn't sure. They came back a little later after we had looked it up some more and they found it fantastic.
@br14 I have done nearly everything but add a new platform for it to support it. *Marketing pitch* Not only is C# very similar to Java, you can use pointers just like C++ and interact with native libraries if you want to.
10-20-2011 11:34 PM
It has nothing to do with the OS.
you can do lots of cool stuff with BBOS if you know how.
and I do like writing code for my layouts, I know many do not;
Android is written in C but it has the Android runtime with a set of the core libraries of the Java SE, most of them.
They invested a lot in this stack, including the optimazation of Dalvik.
Do you really think they would do that if they did not know the future?
Google is not RIM it knows how to cound money, balance its checkbook and capture markets.
And its very very persitent.
RIM is plaged by bad strategic desicions, lack of vision, lack of market knowleage, laziness and the dual CEO structure that have had its glory days but ran out of steam. UNFORTUNATELY.
10-21-2011 08:56 PM
If RIM can burn all the cash on the Android player why can they not do a Java player and support OS6/7 apps?
Even when Palm when to ARM they were able to support 68K apps.
Not a happy camper.