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Developer
Posts: 268
Registered: ‎08-19-2009
My Device: Bold 9700

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

I'm curious to know what app that is now... 

Developer
Posts: 17,012
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Z10 LE, Z30, Passport
My Carrier: O2 Germany

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

I just read that QNX has a JRE, and really wonder why BB 10 does not support that.

I am struggling with c++ (and especially using imports and libs in momentics), and there is very little support to be found.
doing java on BB 10 would be so much better...
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Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

"doing java on BB 10 would be so much better"

 

We were told it was because the look and feel of BBOS was outdated. And yet Google seem to do pretty well with Android Java - no one says it looks outdated.

 

In fact I suspect it has more to do with the recent copyright/patent trial between Google and Oracle.

 

Oracle wanted between $15 and $20 per device to license Java. Right now for Android Java, Google plays $0.

 

From the license screens on BB7 phones it is clear RIM licenses Java from Oracle (or Sun originally) and my guess is the original license deal with Sun was for significantly less per device.

 

But if you want to write Java on BB10/QNX why not just write for Android? Now Google has pretty well won the case with Oracle perhaps we'll see a Dalvik JVM running natively on QNX.

 

I still think it is an odd strategy that RIM would potentially alienate thousands of Java developers writing for its platform, and the only way they can continue to develop for QNX without learning another skill set is to write code for the competition!

 

Developer
Posts: 17,012
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Z10 LE, Z30, Passport
My Carrier: O2 Germany

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

yes, it was widely speculated to be due to the copyright case, now that google has won it might be too late.
I guess dealing with Sun was a bit different to Oracle...

If a JRE is already existing RIM would only need to port it's BB-API-lib to java, that cannot be too hard...
It would be real desktop java, too, not the crippled j2me from the last millennium...
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Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Perhaps the real issue is QNX had few Java developers, whereas "legacy" RIM had lots. And QNX now appears to rule the software roost at RIM.

Developer
Posts: 17,012
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Z10 LE, Z30, Passport
My Carrier: O2 Germany

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

No, i don't think the QNX people did any management decisions, they were being bought and continued working, but on new targets.
All and every RIM persons i spoke to were sad/confused/angry about java being dropped and all the loyal developers being left in the rain, but then i did not speak with Alec or anybody who was responsible for that decision (and how would you know who that was, as RIM does not talk about it?).
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Developer
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎11-17-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

[ Edited ]

I don't see a problem here. Don't get me wrong: I am Java developer since 2005, and I believe that Java ME is a good platform even in 2012.

 

I don't worry because JVM is written in C++, so it is just a matter of time before a first ported JVM will appear on BB10. Lots of open implementations are waiting to be ported.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#Free_and_open_source_implementations

 

It's all up to RIM marketing team. If they can convince C++ developers that BB10 is a prospective platform, we will have a lot of software including 3rd party JVM. If they fail to do so, then we won't get JVM and there will be no point to learn C++ for BB10 anyway Smiley Happy

Developer
Posts: 17,012
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Z10 LE, Z30, Passport
My Carrier: O2 Germany

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

the JVM is not the problem, but the integration into the system, the BB-API.
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Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Dan Dodge (QNX CEO) is now RIM's Chief Software Architect.

 

And the new developer relationship guy Alec is from QNX.

 

So I think it's pretty clear why the Java decision was made.

 

QNX is/was not a consumer products organization except via third parties, and so these guys had no knowledge of what actually works in the consumer space. They're making it up as they go along - and it has to be said doing an ok job so far. But it's possibly too late.

 

If BB10 is not a success, you'll be able to put the blame down in part to the mistaken strategy over BB10 and especially their app strategy. While they fiddled with BB10, the BB7 platform (which really isn't that bad), has burned for 18 months. The missed an entire product development cycle while focussing on Playbook and the missing quarters last year are the result. And yet low cost BB7 phones will continue to be the primary revenue earner for at least 2 to 3 years until production costs of BB10 phones reach levels that will generate reasonable margins.

 

For all Alecs positive statements around apps for RIM, there's a sense that he's fighting the tide. The main growth has come from Android apps - only a few of which are of decent quality. And yet there are probably 70 million legacy BBOS phones out there.

 

It has been a disastrous strategy for RIM and clearly a massive blunder by the original CEO's. Thorsten Heins appears to have made the decision to stick with it now they've come this far, but in my opinion they'd be advised to try and run parallel OS strategies for a few years and quit being so BB10 focussed. It will have to be earth shatteringly good to overcome the weight of expectation. It'll be good I'm sure, but not good enough is my guess.

 

The original developer relationship guys Tyler and Mike left around the time the Java decision was made. It's clear there was a change in the organization - who knows maybe the strategy change was in part behind the departures.

Developer
Posts: 17,012
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Z10 LE, Z30, Passport
My Carrier: O2 Germany

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Good analysis!

I have similar impressions, and the numbers presented at DevCon/BBJam were a bit fishy. They added all the BB-Java applications in their "success count", but did not manage to say that they won't come over to BB10.
They also did not say how many "new apps" were just repackaged android applications that won't win new users to a new platform.

I don't think RIM will steamroll the market with BB10, but if they manage to get the security and integration right they will have a successful market niche in the business sector, and developers can support themselves by developing for these customers.
I don't think i can predict the consumer market, we'll see what comes up there...

Our company is not that dependent on RIM, but if they go down it will hurt, so i hope they survive until the launch of BB10 is there, and i hope it's a success...
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feel free to press the like button on the right side to thank the user that helped you.
please mark posts as solved if you found a solution.
@SimonHain on twitter