Welcome!

Welcome to the official BlackBerry Support Community Forums.

This is your resource to discuss support topics with your peers, and learn from each other.

inside custom component

Java Development

Reply
Developer
Posts: 1,178
Registered: ‎02-19-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Is this a source to say that Java will be abandoned for sure?


Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Nothing is forever so who knows. The BB Player is apparently dead.

 

I've heard suggestions that Oracle wanted to screw RIM over the license fee for Java on Playbook.

 

As long as Google are getting away with not paying Java license fees (unlike RIM at present), RIM are at a competitive disadvantage.

 

No doubt this is a way of telling Oracle RIM sees no future in Java and they've take the gamble they can survive without current BB apps on the BBX platform.

Developer
Posts: 16,997
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Z10 LE, Z30, Passport
My Carrier: O2 Germany

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

very good questions sblantipodi.
Let me clarify that i am in no way related to RIM, and this thread is NOT about any official statement.

In fact, the main reason for me posting this is that there is no official announcement.
RIM has a history of just stopping talking about things that are not realized, for example the GUI builder.

I am quite sure about that because i am at the DevCon, there are sessions about Android, about Webworks, about Air, but nothing about BB-java on QNX.
All the keynote slides showed that webworks is the only bridge between BB-OS and QNX.

If there was an official post about that i would just link to that, it is one of the main problems that there is no statement, we are all left in the dark.

I have asked several RIM experts about it, and they all said that they are not allowed to talk with me about that, but were pretty clear inofficially.

If there is a BB-java player coming out in a month, for example, don't you think there would be some proud part about that on the keynote and on DevCon?


I don't call to anybody to abandon RIM as a development platform, i only want to give my fellow board members here the opportunity to plan their change to the development tools of the future and have them aware of what is about to come.
Letting us figuring out that on ourselves is not a very nice way, and i will be complaining about it left and right whenever they try to thank me for my work in the community they "care" so much about.
----------------------------------------------------------
feel free to press the like button on the right side to thank the user that helped you.
please mark posts as solved if you found a solution.
@SimonHain on twitter
Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

It's obvious Java is dead on BlackBerry.

 

I've thought since I heard about the platform that RIM was dropping Java for BB, and posted as much on their developer blog. They refused to display the post. Several times I've asked about the BB Player and received no response.

 

And if they won't answer the question, the answer is no - there will be no support. Obviously there are significant commercial reasons why they are not confirming the strategy. 

 

Not least the fact that they'll be launching a new platform with very few apps available for the platform. And the fact sales of BlackBerry apps on App World will collapse if people find their apps won't work on the new platform.

 

The resignations of Mike Kirkup and Tyler Lessard start to make sense. They've invested a huge amount of time and energy in the Java eco-system. It must have been devastating to see all that work for nothing.

 

I think RIM's position is understandable. I just don't like the way they're implementing the strategy. Surely they could have released a Java plugin for the Playbook downloadable for the Oracle license fee (assuming thats the driver for the decision) in the same way Oracle provides JRE downloads for Windows/Linux etc. Then provided a base level of API to be supported for a limited period.

 

 

Developer
Posts: 2,268
Registered: ‎07-08-2009
My Device: various
My Carrier: various

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Let me post a somewhat dissenting opinion here:

On one hand, I agree with those who say there should be some backwards compatibility with the BB Java in the future RIM devices (at least phones - I'm not sure about the tablets, frankly).

On the other hand, Java microedition, even with all BB additions, is a dying platform anyway. Developing in it is a nightmare, it is extremely convoluted and poorly documented (the latter is a huge failure of RIM). I guess they should have stopped at (or before) OS 6.0 and start working on a real platform. Now they finally started doing this - at least a year too late.

----------------------------------------------------------
please click 'Accept Solution' on posts that provide the solution to the question you've posted. Don't say "Thanks", press 'Like' button instead!
Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Firstly, they're stuck with JavaME if they want a licensed Java. They could do what Google have done, but it's a guarantee of litigation that is likely to be lost.

 

And if out of data Jave ME technology is the issue, why not simply support Java SE?

 

The Webworks API's are based on the Java API's so that makes little difference.

 

I don't think any of us are complaining about the change in technologies. Simply the way in which this is being done.

 

Will you be as understanding when your BB app sales are crashing next year? Particularly if RIM hasn't released the new phones on time (as per usual)?

Developer
Posts: 4,764
Registered: ‎07-21-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

It's all a moot point if the application customers all move to iPhone and/or Android. We're seeing negative growth in the BB sales already, even though we have a large installation base.

 

My opinion:  This lack of backwards compatibility is one more reason for folks to leave the BB platform. Many of our customers who need a new phone will move to our iPhone software rather than do without.  They can install the iPhone version and re-sync their data, and they're back in business.

 

Developer
Posts: 541
Registered: ‎05-17-2009
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX

Is anyone having luck emailing alec.saunders@rim.com? I am getting "Message included invalid email address"

Scott
Developer
Posts: 16,997
Registered: ‎07-29-2008
My Device: Z10 LE, Z30, Passport
My Carrier: O2 Germany

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX


arkadyz wrote:

Let me post a somewhat dissenting opinion here:

On one hand, I agree with those who say there should be some backwards compatibility with the BB Java in the future RIM devices (at least phones - I'm not sure about the tablets, frankly).

On the other hand, Java microedition, even with all BB additions, is a dying platform anyway. Developing in it is a nightmare, it is extremely convoluted and poorly documented (the latter is a huge failure of RIM). I guess they should have stopped at (or before) OS 6.0 and start working on a real platform. Now they finally started doing this - at least a year too late.


I absolutely agree to what you say here . However: Doing this change without communicating it openly is a very bad idea.

If you are a development company you have to plan for the future, and i guess if you earn your living on your own it is even more important to know where the development is going.

To have a developer conference and don't tell anybody about the most important change on the platform is bad.

 

I am excited about the new possibilities the QNX platform offers. I am not excited about having to switch to c++ though.

And i really don't like having to puzzle all of this out myself, having to fly home and tell it to my colleagues (well, they have read my post here i guess) and having none of the officials here allowed to comment on it.

----------------------------------------------------------
feel free to press the like button on the right side to thank the user that helped you.
please mark posts as solved if you found a solution.
@SimonHain on twitter
Developer
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎06-24-2008
My Device: Not Specified

Re: DevCon update: BB-Java is dead, no java support for QNX


superdirt wrote:
Is anyone having luck emailing alec.saunders@rim.com? I am getting "Message included invalid email address"

Scott

Smiley Happy Haven't tried, but I thought it was odd he'd publish his email address like that!