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SystemToast with button JIRA change

[ Edited ]

Hi,

 

I'm thinking about putting in a JIRA ticket to ask for a change in SystemToast, specifically to do with its behaviour when attaching a button.

 

Why have the timeout disabled when a button is added?

 

This is very confusing for users who expect a Toast to disappear after a few seconds they don't expect to have to click outside the Toast.  To users and to me as a developer and user of multiple platforms this is counter-intuitive.

 

IMHO this design choice needs changing,

If you need to block until an action is indicated from a user then you use a dialog.

If you expect an action to be seldom used and require no user action then you use a button on a Toast that times out.

 

Before I do this though I thought I'd ask other's opinion on this?

 

[Edit] Funnily enough the sender of the support message I got this from (in relation to my app) claimed to be a developer and one that had BFBB apps to boot. If a developer doesn't even know the behaviour what chance do ordinary users have?

 


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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change

I haven't thought about this a lot, but as I understand it the logic behind the timed behaviour is specifically for a use case like "Undo".

If you have it "blindly" timed, then a user may miss the indication and lose the ability to undo the last change (e.g. a deletion).

By disabling the timed disappearance of the Toast, you avoid the situation where a user performs an action and then immediately minimizes the window (or whatever), and never sees the Toast with the Undo button. Instead, the timeout is deferred until they interact with the screen again, ensuring they get "full exposure" to that button and the chance to use it.

Peter Hansen -- (BB10 and dev-related blog posts at http://peterhansen.ca.)
Author of White Noise and Battery Guru for BB10 and for PlayBook | Get more from your battery!
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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change

[ Edited ]

Thanks for your response I understand the reasoning behind it I just don't agree with it.

 

The documentation states that there is enough time to read a few lines so reading a few words saying 'Delete?' together with an Undo button is well within most users capability to read and act upon. This is in fact the purpose I'm using it for, undo a delete. Ideally you would simply extend the timeout time for Toasts with an appended button.

 

In the scenario you mentioned would you really expect a user who minimises a window after saying delete to expect to come back to the app and find the Toast still there or would he expect the delete to have been done?

 

This functionality is there if you wish your app to behave this way through the Dialog classes why duplicate the behaviour in a UI control that users are being trained will disappear?

 

Just like the app shutdown you could also have some functionality to extend the timeout time on certain conditions, e.g. minimising the window.


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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change

@ekke You've published a lot on this, what are your thoughts?


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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change


BBSJdev wrote:

@ekke You've published a lot on this, what are your thoughts?


from the subject of this thread I was misleaded and didn't open ;-)

 

For me this behaviour is ok.

perhaps user clicks on delete and a phone call comes in

or he/she was interrupted in other ways

or there's a Bluetooth keyboard on the desktop and user clicks on DEL without recognizing

then the message would disappear and data is deleted

 

What I'm missing there is a 2nd button

for the UNDO: If I want to delete I have to tap outside the toast and then it will take some time to disappear after timeout.

I would like to have a 2nd button which cancels the toast imemdiately. this would be better UX fom my POV if there's not only UNDO but also DELETE as button on the toast.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ekke (independent software architect, rosenheim, germany)

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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change

What you've described is a SystemDialog so again why duplicate behaviour already available?

I'm torn what to do now ideally I would like to see;

- toasts always time out
- Extension on timer for button toasts
- ability to postpone timer on system events

However no-one seems to agree this is the right way to go, so I guess I will continue to inform my user of the intended behaviour for Toasts with buttons.

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Developer of stokLocker, Sympatico and Super Sentences.
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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change

[ Edited ]

Any other comments still welcome for this change, positive or negative.

 

Has no-one else got a message from a user of their app saying "The Toast won't disappear and therefore I can't delete, please fix!" ?


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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change

So in my apps I manually get the toasts to timeout anyhow even if they do have a button. The way I do this is a bit of a hack in which every toast is launched along side a one time QTimer that waits three seconds and then kills the toast. But it would be great if the toast could just do this on its own...


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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change

[ Edited ]

Thanks for the reply yes this is definately a solution and one I can use but I still feel that it should be in the Control however I'm not going to put in a JIRA entry if I feel no-one else agrees.

 

@Ekke to quote from your own blog...

 

"Undo must be implemented a way not breaking users flow. There is a UI control you can use for this: Cascades SystemToast: a small popup window going away after a short time. And here’s my solution:"

 

But it doesn't go away? So when you wrote this did you expect the intended behaviour to be for it to timeout?


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Re: SystemToast with button JIRA change


BBSJdev wrote:

Thanks for the reply yes this is definately a solution and one I can use but I still feel that it should be in the Control however I'm not going to put in a JIRA entry if I feel no-one else agrees.

 

@Ekke to quote from your own blog...

 

"Undo must be implemented a way not breaking users flow. There is a UI control you can use for this: Cascades SystemToast: a small popup window going away after a short time. And here’s my solution:"

 

But it doesn't go away? So when you wrote this did you expect the intended behaviour to be for it to timeout?


in my app is goes away ;-)

as soon as I'm tapping on the screen or another ActionItem I kill the Toast ,-)

 

so it stays there if nothing happened to be sure the user sees it

THEN if he's doing anything then UNDO I cancel the toast

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ekke (independent software architect, rosenheim, germany)

BlackBerry Elite Developer
BlackBerry Platinum Enterprise Partner
International Development native Mobile Business Apps
BlackBerry 10 | Qt Mobile (Android, iOS)
Workshops / Trainings / Bootcamps

blog: http://ekkes-corner.org
mobile-development: http://appbus.org Twitter: @ekkescorner